Precision Boring Head RetroFit

[drcoelho]

I have a Deckel Precision Boring Head purchased "like new" (their words) from Singer. My FPS 300M is configured with DIN 69871 spindle setup and all my tooling is DIN 69871. I found that the Precision Boring Head drawbar was too short for my tooling. After investigation, I have determined there are several variants for the drawbar as follows:
- original Deckel S20x2, where the drawbar has a female thread and tooling has a male thread
- somewhat newer drawbar design (which came on my Precision Boring Head) which has an M16x2.0 male thread, but is too short for DIN 69871...this drawbar is setup for Deckel tooling that had a somewhat longer neck on tool holders than DIN 69871
- and what I need is a drawbar for DIN 69871, which is about 25cm longer than above, but still with M16x2.0 male thread

I knocked out a replacement drawbar. This post shows the results.

First, photos of the original and retrofit replacement that I made and also the various other parts associated with drawbar:

 

[drcoelho]

Photos of FP1 riser, vertical head being removed, precision boring head being installed, UPA 4 boring accessory mounted, and zoom in on UPA 4 boring head showing the male/male drive dog adapter which is required since the Deckel spindle has a female drive dog, and DIN 69871 also has female. Singer kindly provided the drive dog adapter.

 

[Peter from Holland]

Your boring head takes Din2080 tooling You have adaptors going from din 69871 to din 2080

 

[zephyrous]

Story of my life...Having around 4 generations of Deckel milling machines, I find it quite a pazzle to interchange toolholders between the machines...Unfortunatelly Peter, this adapter is mainly used for its outside pull stud action, as its internal M16 thread is too short and requires a special short drawbar, that of course will not comply with both the original DIN2080 and DIN69871 thread lenghts.
Green is the length of the 2080 adapter thread which is blind
Blue is the typical DIN2080 thread length-through hole
Red is the DIN69871 thread length-through hole


Also, these drawbars not only need to draw the toolholder but also need to eject it when untightening!

 

[Peter from Holland]

It all depends on how much is it worth to you to stick to "original"
With a somewhat shortened pullbar it will work
Peter

 

[AlfaGTA]

Nice combo of parts, nice work on the draw bar. For my money your solution uses a bit too much of the already scarce head room of the FP1.

The way I handled this was a bit different.
I have a nice UPA3 with a 1” straight shank.
Allows use of the same boring head on both of my Deckels. (FP2,FP3NC)
On the manual machine I hold the boring head with an OE 1” direct fitting collet.
I prefer the original style direct fitting 40 taper collets. Gives good concentricity and uses the minimum vertical to hold tools.
Have run this setup quite a bit and have not had any issues with tool or boring head slippage or movement.
If a front closing collet setup is desired , the OE Deckel “OZ “ collet gives the convince of a front closing holder but retains a very short length.

On my FP3NC, I run the boring head in a stubby (one set screw) 1” Welden style CAT40 end mill holder. Makes the boring head “universal” and equally usable between both manual and NC!

All my accessory spindles (manual) Precision boring head, high speed head, and right angle head all use the original Deckel draw bar, and tooling incorporating the 20x2.0 male thread.

Good quality and widely available holders (CAT40 or BT40) can easily be used with the original draw bar by simply fitting an adapter stud (Singer) or shop made.
Cheers Ross

 

[drcoelho]

Your boring head takes Din2080 tooling You have adaptors going from din 69871 to din 2080

View attachment 395421

I was aware of this solution, BUT this would require me to constantly put these adapters on and off all my tooling, just wanted to fix things once and for all.

 

[drcoelho]

Nice combo of parts, nice work on the draw bar. For my money your solution uses a bit too much of the already scarce head room of the FP1.

The way I handled this was a bit different.
I have a nice UPA3 with a 1” straight shank.
Allows use of the same boring head on both of my Deckels. (FP2,FP3NC)
On the manual machine I hold the boring head with an OE 1” direct fitting collet.
I prefer the original style direct fitting 40 taper collets. Gives good concentricity and uses the minimum vertical to hold tools.
Have run this setup quite a bit and have not had any issues with tool or boring head slippage or movement.
If a front closing collet setup is desired , the OE Deckel “OZ “ collet gives the convince of a front closing holder but retains a very short length.

On my FP3NC, I run the boring head in a stubby (one set screw) 1” Welden style CAT40 end mill holder. Makes the boring head “universal” and equally usable between both manual and NC!

All my accessory spindles (manual) Precision boring head, high speed head, and right angle head all use the original Deckel draw bar, and tooling incorporating the 20x2.0 male thread.

Good quality and widely available holders (CAT40 or BT40) can easily be used with the original draw bar by simply fitting an adapter stud (Singer) or shop made.
Cheers Ross

I would have gone with UPA3 but as you note it only is available with a straight shank. My UPA4 has the integral 40 taper shank. That being said, I might go ahead and get a UPA3 one of these days for cases where I need the extra Z.

Ya, was aware of the adapter stud, but just didn't want to install/de-install as I move holders between the various heads, prefer just having everything standardized. Making the drawbar was fun exercise anyway.

 

[AlfaGTA]

I would have gone with UPA3 but as you note it only is available with a straight shank

Not so!!

Current UPA 3 comes with interchangeable shanks. You can have almost anything you want from Morse to Moore NMTB 40 or CAT40

My head is older from when they had integral shanks (40,Morse etc) happened to be 1” straight which works for me.
Original style ( female thread) drawbar works across all my tooling, no adapter swapping. Gave case of the adapter studs as a solution to finding price competitive tooling here(US).
Once fitted no swapping needed if you had retained the original drawbar.
Cheers Ross

 

[drcoelho]

I searched pretty hard and could not find a shank for DIN69871 for the UPA 3, plenty of others, just not that particular setup.

Ya, the issue for me is that my vertical head is DIN69871 and therefore that is my standard versus your setup which is standard of S20x2.0

 

[Peter from Holland]

Bt mas also fits I suppose

 

[AlfaGTA]

Little curious that FPS did not get this right out of the box........Sees they should have known.
Cheers Ross

 

[drcoelho]

This was not a product bought from FPS, I bought the Precision Boring Head from Singer. I had requested M15 drawbar which they provided, but should have been more specific about DIN69871....that being said, I suspect that there is no such thing as a Precision Boring Head with native DIN69871 drawbar...thus the need to make one. I've been fiddling with the new setup and am very happy with the Precision Boring Head, works like a charm and has no problem swinging that UPA 4 around.

FYI, FPS does offer the option of DIN69871 OR S20x2.0 on their machines, I just chose to go with DIN69871 because there is such a hugely larger selection of tool holders that are still manufacturered for that standard. By now I have a HUGE investment in this tooling, not going back at this stage.