Precision ground flat stones

[michiganbuck]

It is not uncommon to see a person thinning a mag chuck with a 1 x 3" worn-out stone. Doing that to my grinder and out-the-door, a light swipe with a flat fine hone with a like-new small stone is not so bad. . I use a new condition 6 or 8" stone and stone the whole chuck. And I don't hole a little spot every time I set a part on the chuck.
A true stone can be used to check squareness with the stone on your checking plate^ and then a small part rub to the stone. Good to place the stone on a piece if card paper to protect the chuck and wet diamond wheel grind the hone-stone to flat and square, a 120gt wheel is my choice.. Yes, blocked-in with the go direction block touching hight up on the stone.

Actually, I use a 120gt wheel for all non-surface-spec grinding.

^checking plate...a 8x10x5/8"(or what) steel plate that one uses for a mini surface plate/gage plate/and many uses.

Plus, moving/using other sections of one check can save frequent regrinding of the chuck... center at the bump rail is not the only place to use a mag chuck.

 

[eKretz]

I had some time last week so I decided to put up my website about precision ground flat stones as mentioned before. It is spam link not allowed

Also I did put my stones under a microscope and I did see some fairly interesting stuff. First let me say putting medium and fine grit stones (anything over 150 grit) under a typical optical microscope is completely pointless because the feature size approaches the resolution limit . It would be really cool to put it under an electron microscope.

But 150 grit and below do give us some confirmation of what's going on. For example this photo taken from the side. Please not only the top surface was ground in the right photo.
View attachment 399520
We can clearly see that grains end on a nice flat plane on the right. Each grain is approximately 100 micron or 4 tenths of an inch. It surprised me that on the ground side we can still see lots of "pointy" ones, but each of them has its top flattened. It can be seen on this photo too somewhat, but one needs a keen eye to notice the tops are more "broken glass" like on the non ground side, and more blunt on the ground side.
View attachment 399522
The grains definitely remain sharp on the sides. The above is not the Norton stone. Norton uses fairly dense matrix so it looks a lot less spectacular under a microscope. This is a different 120 grit stone.

Also, having done all these experiments with different stones I definitely have my favorites for various tasks. I really wanted to find a supplier to challenge the Norton's domination in this space, but eventually I had to admit. Norton's bench stone (the fine side) makes the best fine precision ground flat stone for delicate clean work. I tested it on gauge blocks and precision lapped parts. It is the best for such stuff. The coarse side IMO is best for rubbing against the fine when you need to fix damage to it.

However, for making sure your surface grinder's chuck has no burrs? (or a grinding vice, fixture plates etc). For stoning stuff that is not quite clean? I'd rather use a stone with larger grit and more open matrix.

So that's my 2c about it.

I own the copyright of the images. I have no problem with them being here. I put huge logos across to avoid them being published elsewhere with no attribution.

You are not allowed to advertise your sale website here. Technical content is fine. No sale link spamming. I edited out your URL. Don't do that again. You may repost the images if you wish, but you will need to alter the watermark to remove the URL. You could also list some hones for sale in the proper section:

Tooling, Parts and Accessories For Sale or Wanted

List- work holding devices, collets, cutting tools and more - Free ! >> moderator Mebfab

www.practicalmachinist.com

 

[michiganbuck]

I have no problem with a long-time PM member spamming once in a coon's age if it is relative to a thread subject...But I'm not a moderator

I one (long travel) pass on a Norbide stick with a 120gt wheel to make a Norbide file
It's great for deburring a steel edge. or talking the burr from a fresh knife edge..it doesn't hone like an AO or ceramic hone.it leaves about .003 riffles in the Norbide face...On the other Norbide side I make a few cross-travels to make it near smooth.
for a spec"ground surface" I use a 120gt and make at least one cross of.003, which equals 1/2 the 12O grit /or .003. I don't know/remember the RFM but never got a surface finish complaint.
REF: 46gt = about .014", 60=.010, 100= .006, 120=.005. 150=.004
Note the grit size is about the best corner radius you cab with a wheel of that grit....
A 46gt may give a .020" shoulder/inside corner

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

You rub down a big planer table with your stone/hone and I’ll guarantee it’ll be flat as a very flat flat thing when you’ve finished. Use in conjunction with paraffin ( kerosene in the US ) as a lubricant.

Regards Tyrone

 

[eKretz]

I have no problem with a long-time PM member spamming once in a coon's age if it is relative to a thread subject...But I'm not a moderator

I don't have a problem if he wants to post some hones for sale in the Tooling and Parts For Sale section. This section is for help with problems and technical/how-to information, so far as I'm concerned. I don't think a commercial website link will be allowed in that section either though.

 

[luke8888]

You are not allowed to advertise your sale website here. Technical content is fine. No sale link spamming. I edited out your URL. Don't do that again. You may repost the images if you wish, but you will need to alter the watermark to remove the URL. You could also list some hones for sale in the proper section:

Tooling, Parts and Accessories For Sale or Wanted

List- work holding devices, collets, cutting tools and more - Free ! >> moderator Mebfab

www.practicalmachinist.com

Why would I Alter the watermark? So anyone can take these images and claim them their own?

Anyway, I replied directly via PM. The gist of what I said is. I don't think this is spamming. My post (and the article as well as other content) contains actual valuable info on the subject I saw nowhere else online. At the same time posts like this :

Post in thread 'Precision ground flat stones' https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/precision-ground-flat-stones.412472/post-4063890

Are allowed. Are they? Or was this missed by the mods? TBH. I was shocked something like this is fine, so I looked through the rules of the forum and I found no rule saying "thou shalt not post links to ecommerce /shops thou owns", but there was something to the effect of not posting obvious spam like just a link which brings nothing to the discussion. You may disagree, but I believe what I posted and what I have on the site does push the topic of use of those stones definitely much further.

I would never post a link to a shop (my or a friend's) had I not saw this done one page ago and no one other than me even noticing.

Also, just to clarify one thing. No one is making serious money selling precision ground flat stones in Europe. I've done research with Google and all traffic searching for these (99%) comes from US. It makes zero sense for anyone from US to buy it from Europe when they have local makers at the same price. And it pretty much has to be the same price for a well made product. I applaud Stefan Gotteswinter for selling them for half that price, but he has a job shop so it makes sense for him to do it. Why? Well, one has to email him to order (which is fine), once a conversation starts that may convert into future job shop business.

Anyway, I just wanted to say what I think on the matter.

 

[eKretz]

Why would I Alter the watermark? So anyone can take these images and claim them their own?

Anyway, I replied directly via PM. The gist of what I said is. I don't think this is spamming. My post (and the article as well as other content) contains actual valuable info on the subject I saw nowhere else online. At the same time posts like this :

Post in thread 'Precision ground flat stones' https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/precision-ground-flat-stones.412472/post-4063890

Are allowed. Are they? Or was this missed by the mods? TBH. I was shocked something like this is fine, so I looked through the rules of the forum and I found no rule saying "thou shalt not post links to ecommerce /shops thou owns", but there was something to the effect of not posting obvious spam like just a link which brings nothing to the discussion. You may disagree, but I believe what I posted and what I have on the site does push the topic of use of those stones definitely much further.

I would never post a link to a shop (my or a friend's) had I not saw this done one page ago and no one other than me even noticing.

Also, just to clarify one thing. No one is making serious money selling precision ground flat stones in Europe. I've done research with Google and all traffic searching for these (99%) comes from US. It makes zero sense for anyone from US to buy it from Europe when they have local makers at the same price. And it pretty much has to be the same price for a well made product. I applaud Stefan Gotteswinter for selling them for half that price, but he has a job shop so it makes sense for him to do it. Why? Well, one has to email him to order (which is fine), once a conversation starts that may convert into future job shop business.

Anyway, I just wanted to say what I think on the matter.

And I answered via PM. If you were just going to post it out here I wouldn't have bothered to send the PM. In any case, now that you have, I will add my response here as well.

"The link posted by Richard, (who is not financially affiliated to the sites he linked) was attempting to provide a source of information as a response to your questions and is not the same as self-promotion/sales. He was basically trying to give you contact information. Like I mentioned in the thread, you are free to post some hones for sale in the *commerce/sales* section of the site, but I don't know if a commercial link will fly there or not either. The section you posted in is not a sales area. You'll need to stick to technical discussion there, no advertising products... I could maybe have chosen a better word than spamming, but it got the idea across in a succinct manner.

And yes, the technical info is interesting. That's why I try to contain that section to just technical info, questions, etc."

There have been many threads here on this topic already. Many of those may not have been in this section, but in General. I recall several off the top of my head, all with the same general information.

As far as altering the watermark - I didn't say you needed to remove all watermarks completely, merely that it can not be a sales website URL.

 

[ballen]

Eric, not wanting to step on yours or anyones toes, but Luke has been a PM member for years and often had something interesting to say. He's not a fly by night guy who is only here to sell stuff. So I think Buck is right, it's OK for Luke put a link to his site, it's not excessive. Obviously for someone who was only here to sell stuff, I'd feel differently and be happy to have you clip their wings. Just my 2 cents worth. Cheers, Bruce

 

[eKretz]

Eric, not wanting to step on yours or anyones toes, but Luke has been a PM member for years and often had something interesting to say. He's not a fly by night guy who is only here to sell stuff. So I think Buck is right, it's OK for Luke put a link to his site, it's not excessive. Obviously for someone who was only here to sell stuff, I'd feel differently and be happy to have you clip their wings. Just my 2 cents worth. Cheers, Bruce

That's fine outside a tech thread, just don't really want it here in this section. I think it's a better idea to keep the commerce in the sale section, and likely to get more traffic there anyway. I saw that he had been a member for a while, but doesn't have a whole lot of posts, maybe a little over one a month on average. Most of which are asking questions, as I recall. I do appreciate the input from both of you and will always strive to take all such into consideration.