Production key cutting on shafts......best way?

[Mtndew]

It works, but it's slow.

What tooling are you using currently in the Bridgeport to cut the keys now?
I'd be using a quick change drawbar (air operated), 1 roughing tool and 1 finishing tool.
Could knock out those 70 pieces in a couple of hours easily.

Unless a woodruff cutter is allowed, then of course that would be MUCH faster. Especially a solid carbide one.

 

[EmGo]

What is your budget? Lots of ways to skin this cat.

If he wants to piss away some money, we can help with that Get a lathe that's built for this job ?



same idea but glitzier ?



okay, here's crazy. Two chucks, feed out far enough to do one end, then the second chuck grabs the finished end and pulls it through the steady, turrret now finishes the first end. (Right hand chuck is on ways, has maybe two feet of travel ?)



here's for pook, who caused this disruption in the continuum ... canadian ! didn't even know they built presses Up North



It's not my fault. Pook made me do it

 

[jim rozen]

Do the keyways on each end of the shaft *have* to be aligned? What do they do?

 

[michiganbuck]

I think a horizontal mill could run 4 (+) shaft ends at one time.
Plus, a small Tc grinder can usually get 4 sharpening from each cutter.

I guess one could engineer a vertical shaft with an out board bearing to make a vertical mill a 4 key way cutter machine to run 4 shaft ends(ketways) at one time.
I could do that with my small mill by attaching the spindle out board end bearing on the knee gib dovetail..so having a 4 cutter arbor on a verticle mill with an out-end bearing.
Yes, use a simple arbor Keyway cutter like a Niagara.

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Most one spindle machines wont be any faser the a BP.

 

[MwTech Inc]

Old school but I do keys all the time on a K&T horiz. shafts up to 10 ft long....
IF, the OP can have the radius left from the cutter?

An old CNC is just fine, BUT....now you have an old possibly cranky machine that few can repair, takes up a lot of space,
It stops, all production stops, no 70 shafts for then "how many days" till the ol clunker is fixed.

The chances of an old school horiz quitting are far and few. Switch, contactor and a motor......any one can fix that.
Good arbor, fresh matched cutters, v-block fixtures with stops....pretty much a no brainer .....

 

[ratbldr427]

I would try to put 2 shafts in one vise with the appropriate size spacer between them( stop included) and cut from the center between them with a circular cutter cutting both at once. With a tray on either side of the vice feed slanted to roll to the vise and the other discharge side slanted away.This will save a little time by not having to reverse each pair, that can be done while the cut is going and reversing them while they are moved to the feed side for the other end cut. A circular motion should be very quick.Pull out roll off, roll in, push to stop clamp and cut and repeate.

 

[TGTool]

Several decent suggestions. If he needs higher production rates he has to think about how to remove more metal in less time. Two (or more) shafts cut simultaneously with a horizontal or vertical will do that. Or figure out how to get higher feeds and speeds. Even a CNC is limited to how fast it can remove metal, and while live tooling could do more operations in one setup, if he has two manual machines doing the operations simultaneously, even CNC can't do that.

 

[gregormarwick]

To those suggesting that a horizontal mill, or two horizontal mills and a lathe, or some other combination of manual machines will outpace a live tool lathe, a modern live tool lathe will have one end of the shaft done or almost done in the time it takes any manual machine just to rapid from one end of the shaft to the other.

Between turning the journals, tapping the ends and cutting the keyways it would take six or more manual machines and operaters to outpace one modern live tool lathe, with all the costs and risks that go along with it. And the operator can be running the bandsaw, emptying the swarf bin, and doing quality control while the lathe is working.

If OP wants a sustainably high output, low labour cost, reliable and repeatable process, the live tool lathe is a no brainer.

 

[TGTool]

To those suggesting that a horizontal mill, or two horizontal mills and a lathe, or some other combination of manual machines will outpace a live tool lathe, a modern live tool lathe will have one end of the shaft done or almost done in the time it takes any manual machine just to rapid from one end of the shaft to the other.

Between turning the journals, tapping the ends and cutting the keyways it would take six or more manual machines and operaters to outpace one modern live tool lathe, with all the costs and risks that go along with it. And the operator can be running the bandsaw, emptying the swarf bin, and doing quality control while the lathe is working.

If OP wants a sustainably high output, low labour cost, reliable and repeatable process, the live tool lathe is a no brainer.

All true, but buried in the comparison is the fact the the OP is using HSS and the NC machine is using carbide. And he doesn't necessarily have to buy more machines..

It's obviously a MUCH better solution, but cost/part amortizing the new machine might not stand up.

 

[gregormarwick]

All true, but buried in the comparison is the fact the the OP is using HSS and the NC machine is using carbide. And he doesn't necessarily have to buy more machines..

It's obviously a MUCH better solution, but cost/part amortizing the new machine might not stand up.

He's already considering buying a VMC, so...

What we don't know is how long he wants to sustain production for. If it's 70 pieces a day for a month then by all means short term hire some more people and get on with it. For longer term I'd expect a good amount of labour turnover - it's a shitty job, very labour intensive, going to have to pay to get people to stick it out, and the scrap rate will be high.

If it's 70 pieces a day on an ongoing basis, then a new turnkey live tool lathe is a no brainer. The labour savings will be huge. Personally, I'd be looking for a used live tool lathe after a week of 70 pieces a day of the same simple part. It doesn't have to be new or fast to churn that out. Here in the UK, £10k would get you something that would work, £20k would get you something a little newer and more reliable, £40k would get you something nice and fairly modern. I'm not sure how that translates over there.

 

[michiganbuck]

The idea of horizontal mill is that one might have 4 or 5 V blocks to run 4 or 5 parts at one end un-manned with having 4 or 5 key slot mill cutters on the arbor. The rapid travel to the opposite end if wished to do bothh ends would be for 4 or 5 or five parts. 'An Ok small horizontal mill for such a simple task might be $5 or $10 k.

Travel could just go to a limit switch and the mill would shut down and wait for the operator to return.
One might even have two such mills back to back if the part numbers were high0
One might wish key ways to be opposite 180* for balance.

 

[dkmc]

The idea of horizontal mill is that one might have 4 or 5 V blocks to run 4 or 5 parts at one end un-manned with having 4 or 5 key slot mill cutters on the arbor. The rapid travel to the opposite end if wished to do bothh ends would be for 4 or 5 or five parts. 'An Ok small horizontal mill for such a simple task might be $5 or $10 k.

Travel could just go to a limit switch and the mill would shut down and wait for the operator to return.
One might even have two such mills back to back if the part numbers were high0
One might wish key ways to be opposite 180* for balance.

You are describing a Kent Owens mill. Hyd feed, rapid return. I paid $275.00 for
mine 25 years ago.

 

[michiganbuck]

I did cutter work on an old German one (horizontal mill) that was in metric before hand calculators, That was a bugger.Often one would just spot zero on a JoBlock to save time.

 

[MwTech Inc]

To those suggesting that a horizontal mill, or two horizontal mills and a lathe, or some other combination of manual machines will outpace a live tool lathe,

Never implied that.....live tool wins hands down, BUT..........
Now you have to buy a decent machine...PLUS
Foundation
Power requirements
Space
cost of setup tooling
Possible cost of needed tool holders
Coolant
Rigging
Does anyone have CNC programming experience
Service and repairs

So, there is a lot more to it......... I suggested an old school horiz simply because the OP is using a BP now and did not mention that the precision was not acceptable.
And, we don't know the shop, they might not have any need for the live machine for anything else?
And if the "job" goes away, much less invested.