QT10N ATC M/C question

[Mazakson]

I've come across one of these in decent shape for what I thought seemed like a good price. Just curious if anyone has one, and what their opinion of the machine is. I know they have oddball vdi tooling, but this machine comes with a loaded magazine plus 6 more. I haven't seen this specific machine run, but I've watched some videos and it seems like a pretty rigid design. It seems like it's live tooling would be pretty capable too. If anyone has experience with them, and could offer any advice on what to look for, or let me know if it should be avoided all together I would appreciate it. I'd also like to know what a fair price would be. It's an '88 with Mazatrol Cam T3 programmable tailstock, tool eye, 8" Chuck. That's about all I know about the machine. Thanks.

 

[xa-mont]

One of the regulars here has one or 2, from memory, they're pretty slow to change tools and the live tooling is fairly slow rpm too, but they are very capable and have the advantage of more spacing between tools than a normal turret, so less interference problems

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[benganboll]

Hi I got one and I know that at least one more here in this forum has one.
As xa-mont says its kind of slow in tool change and from turning mode to C-axis mode.
So if you are looking for a machine to make very large series fast this is not the one for you.

But if you are looking for a flexible machine to make series from 1-1000 pcs I think this is the perfect machine.
About the live tooling they where sold whith 1500rpm or 2500rpm depending if you needed speed or torque, only differens is 2 puleys, 3 belts and a parameter (I changed mine from 1500 to 2500).
All live tools for QT10ATC is YCC16 collets and they are almost impossible to find but I made adapters so I can use ER25 collets and ER25 nuts has the same thread as YCC16 nut. Live tools from SlantTurn20ATC will fit and they are YCC20 and with an adapter you will get ER32.
And the angular live tool has a very limited length.

About the price, I think 12500 - 20000 us dollar is a fair price here in Sweden if the machine is fully working. If the machine has been diconnected for years you should have this in mind:
-Why was it disconnected? anything broken like spindle bearings?
-T3 controller has batteries on some of the boards, any leakage from these?
-Capacitors from 1988 is starting to fail so be prepaired with your soldering iron to change them when servos and drives are failing.
-Is all parameters included?

I love my Mazak QT10ATC and we use it every day.

 

[Mazakson]

Thanks for the info benganboll, especially about the collets. I was unaware of that. One thing that I wasn't thrilled about was the 1500 rpm milling spindle, but it's nice to know that could be bumped up to 2500. The machine has been sitting, parameters are included, but will need to be loaded. I am not 100% sure why the machine has been sitting, but I think the current owner bought it with plans for a specific job, but those plans changed and he doesn't need the machine anymore.

 

[Philabuster]

I love my Mazak QT10ATC and we use it every day.

My thoughts exactly. I've been running one for 21 years now and still love it. Definitely my "GO TO" machine.

This machine has a MUCH larger swing than any lathe in it's class--thanks to it's longer X-axis travel required for live tooling ops. My avatar is my 10N ATC/MC's 8" chuck with 15" jaws mounted on it to give you an idea what I do with it. I have some modified tool stations and can turn up to the max OD swing of 19"

I don't use the milling very much on the machine but it has it's uses for sure. Main advantage to me is the 16 tools at my disposal at any given moment--14 of which are turning. The vast number of tools combined with the large swing and Mazatrol programming makes this a very capable prototype machine in a small footprint.

If you are looking for high volume production, then a newer machine with an actual turret would be better suited for that task.

 

[Mazakson]

Thanks for your input, philabuster. I'm looking at this machine as a means of getting started on my own and I thought with the live tooling, it would make me a little more versatile, having only one machine. I've been a mazak guy most of my career, but mostly with 640 or newer controls. I have always been a g-code guy, but I've always wanted to utilize the mazatrol, just haven't been trained. I'm hoping this machine has the eia feature but that won't be a deal breaker by any means. From what I understand, older mazatrol programming is very simple on a lathe. What would you consider fair price on something like I described?

 

[Philabuster]

I have always been a g-code guy, but I've always wanted to utilize the mazatrol, just haven't been trained.

What would you consider fair price on something like I described?

You will throw rocks at G-code machines once you get to using Mazatrol. It is stupid easy and feels like cheating. All of my old Mazaks have G-code and it is so archaic compared to Mazatrol, I don't even bother with it.

Price for the machine? That depends on the seller. The machine will be worth more if it's proven to run as is vs sitting idle and told here are the parameters--hope it works.

Truth is the machine is getting a bit long in the tooth. It will need new spindle and servo drives eventually, which are not cheap. Machines that sit for a long time are more prone to electrical shit failing when they are fired back up.

If the machine is in good running condition, I would say $15k would be on the top end. I would say probably $5k if I was buying one unhooked and in the corner. It may just need new batteries and parameters reloaded or it may need a new spindle drive. You never know.

 

[Mazakson]

Thanks, 5k was the number I was going to offer, he's asking 7500, but I feel I'll have some leverage considering what you guys have mentioned. It is five hours away from me, and I actually have to go to the town it's in next month, so I plan on checking it out then. If you can think of anything I should be looking for in particular when I go to check it out, please let me know.

 

[benganboll]

I uploaded a video of my QT10ATC to show you the speed of tool change and C-axis engagement.

 

[Mazakson]

Thanks for the video! That was a great demonstration. Does your machine have the eia option? If so, did you use eia or mazatrol on that part.

 

[Mazakson]

I just thought of a question that I should have asked from the beginning.... What are the power requirements for this machine. Can it run on 220 3 phase?

 

[xa-mont]

Thanks for the video! That was a great demonstration. Does your machine have the eia option? If so, did you use eia or mazatrol on that part.

If you check out the forums there's a thread about adding EIA to T2 controlled machines.

Most people use mazatrol though as it's dead simple

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[benganboll]

Does your machine have the eia option? If so, did you use eia or mazatrol on that part.

Its programed with mazatrol.
In Mazatrol every operation is one process, like drilling the four holes is one process, and you can put in a "manual process" to use G codes even if the machine doesnt have the EIA/ISO option.
A manual process can only handle the basic G codes and has a limit of lines, 99 if I remember correct.
So the deburring process is made with G codes in a manual process.

My machine did not have the EIA/ISO option but I have installed it a few weeks ago.
To install EIA/ISO you need one FX17 board that you can find for 50-100$ on ebay, 6 eproms that I can supply and a parameter setting.
But so far I have never used the EIA/ISO programming even if I know how to....
Mazatrol is the way to go.

We do all our programing on the machines and since T2/T3 only can hold 16 programs in memmory we transfer them to a computer using MazView.
MazView is a simple save, load and view (no edit function) program and its only 199$ for a licens.
You can not use the ordinary software or any available box to store mazatrol programs.
Mazak is sending mazatrol programs with a special protocol that only a few software can handle.
To transfer EIA/ISO programs you can use any software available for transfering CNC programs.

 

[benganboll]

I just thought of a question that I should have asked from the beginning.... What are the power requirements for this machine. Can it run on 220 3 phase?

Here in Sweden we have 3 phase and 220-240V between Null and 1 phase and 380-400V between 2 phases.
It is recommeded to have 63A fuses but I have been running my QT10ATC on 25A fuses and I am runnig QT10N, QT10ATC and one ST30ATC at the same time on 50A total.

 

[Mazakson]

Thanks for all of the excellent information, benganboll.

 

[Mazakson]

This is probably a dumb question, but a machine of that age wouldn't have polar interpolation capabilities, would it?

 

[benganboll]

If I understand your question right I would Yes it has.
You can specify an ? for X or Z and then input the angle and it will calculate endpoint.
You can do the same with radius if you specify radius center.

 

[Mazakson]

Thanks for the quick reply benganboll, but I think we are talking about two different things. What I am referring to is done with a g12.1 command on a matrix control. What is does, is allows you to use your c axis as a y axis, so you could mill a hex on the face of a bar. I hope that makes sense, not really sure how to describe something like that. I would think that a machine of this age (1988) wouldn't have such capabilities, but mazak controls always seem ahead of the times, so I thought I would ask....

 

[xa-mont]

Thanks for the quick reply benganboll, but I think we are talking about two different things. What I am referring to is done with a g12.1 command on a matrix control. What is does, is allows you to use your c axis as a y axis, so you could mill a hex on the face of a bar. I hope that makes sense, not really sure how to describe something like that. I would think that a machine of this age (1988) wouldn't have such capabilities, but mazak controls always seem ahead of the times, so I thought I would ask....

Sounds like you're talking about XC or ZC milling.

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[Mazakson]

Seems right, xa-mont. I'm not familiar with Mazatrol so I wasn't sure how to phrase the question to someone unfamiliar with g-code. Do you know if a machine that age with a t3 control would have that option?