metalmadness
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2015
Hello,
Just curious on a topic. Tooling is expensive, yes? Well, I wonder why some brands sell very expensive tooling, and some companies sell much cheaper tooling. For the sake of argument lets take away the outliers like Shars and eBay on the low end, and companies like Big Kaiser or Haimer on the high end. Focus in on the middle. Brands I am thinking of - Kennametal, Ingersoll, Iscar, Walter, Maritool, Tungaloy, etc etc etc.
I am bringing this up because I want to know what the justification is for lets say, buying end mills from Ingersoll versus a company like Helical Solutions, where the price difference is up to 100%. Nothing about the Ingersoll end mills looks like it is that different except the coating. Is the coating really going to jack the price up that much? I know there are many specialty coatings, but isn't the rule of thumb about 10% extra for a coating on the tool cost? A Kennametal milling chuck is like $350, and equivalent Maxin holder from Ingersoll or Iscar is like $600...strange eh?
Another example, Destiny Tool vs. Helical Solutions. What makes Destiny Diamonback so much better to justify the additional cost (again, a large change of up to 100%)....is the Diamondback 2x as good at roughing aluminum? Everyone is using cemented carbide obviously. I know there are different grades and all, but isn't all carbide 'micrograin carbide' these days? Surely the carbide blanks aren't that much better than another company? Or maybe they are and I am wrong.
Don't take this the wrong way, I love many of those brands and have run them all. Ingersoll indexable milling is awesome. But is the cutter body that much better at $600 for a 2" diameter vs. a Kennametal 2" cutter body at $350? I don't know. I don't think so. I just don't get the reason for some of these wild price swings.
I am partly bringing this up because we get a great discount on Haas tooling as an .edu facilty. I don't even own a Haas machine but their toolholders and stuff look pretty good. It's made in Korea (among other places, but not China). Haven't bought any but I am tempted. We own a diverse range of tooling systems and aren't loyal to one brand. We are loyal to value and performance though, which exists on a spectrum. We have X number of dollars to spend annually, so good value is important.
I know it is all extremely application dependent. Just curious what your thoughts on this are.
Just curious on a topic. Tooling is expensive, yes? Well, I wonder why some brands sell very expensive tooling, and some companies sell much cheaper tooling. For the sake of argument lets take away the outliers like Shars and eBay on the low end, and companies like Big Kaiser or Haimer on the high end. Focus in on the middle. Brands I am thinking of - Kennametal, Ingersoll, Iscar, Walter, Maritool, Tungaloy, etc etc etc.
I am bringing this up because I want to know what the justification is for lets say, buying end mills from Ingersoll versus a company like Helical Solutions, where the price difference is up to 100%. Nothing about the Ingersoll end mills looks like it is that different except the coating. Is the coating really going to jack the price up that much? I know there are many specialty coatings, but isn't the rule of thumb about 10% extra for a coating on the tool cost? A Kennametal milling chuck is like $350, and equivalent Maxin holder from Ingersoll or Iscar is like $600...strange eh?
Another example, Destiny Tool vs. Helical Solutions. What makes Destiny Diamonback so much better to justify the additional cost (again, a large change of up to 100%)....is the Diamondback 2x as good at roughing aluminum? Everyone is using cemented carbide obviously. I know there are different grades and all, but isn't all carbide 'micrograin carbide' these days? Surely the carbide blanks aren't that much better than another company? Or maybe they are and I am wrong.
Don't take this the wrong way, I love many of those brands and have run them all. Ingersoll indexable milling is awesome. But is the cutter body that much better at $600 for a 2" diameter vs. a Kennametal 2" cutter body at $350? I don't know. I don't think so. I just don't get the reason for some of these wild price swings.
I am partly bringing this up because we get a great discount on Haas tooling as an .edu facilty. I don't even own a Haas machine but their toolholders and stuff look pretty good. It's made in Korea (among other places, but not China). Haven't bought any but I am tempted. We own a diverse range of tooling systems and aren't loyal to one brand. We are loyal to value and performance though, which exists on a spectrum. We have X number of dollars to spend annually, so good value is important.
I know it is all extremely application dependent. Just curious what your thoughts on this are.