Question about a barrel liner idea

[4575wcf]

Hello
I've been thinking about this one for awhile. I am not finding any information online, there may be a good reason why not. Anywho--Here goes. I was wondering if a guy could expand one end of a 9/16" liner for the 32/40 cartridge to except a larger cartridge in order to have thicker walls after the chambering. Care to stay concentric, some judicious heat to prevent splitting, etc. and stay small enough to clean up with the proper chambering reamer. Thoughts why or why not?

 

[john.k]

Maybe.....ive done more or less that using hydraulic tube for liners .....but the tube is meant to be expanded ......i expand it initially with tube rollers and then second stage with a ka-.boom.

 

[4575wcf]

Well. I am also on the blacksmithing forum iforgeiron, and those guys would take it up to red heat, drive in an expander, then dress it out concentric. Works, but what would be the result on the 4130 tubing as far as strength or splitting? I like this idea in that it would serve to "lock" the liner in at the breech end once a suitably shaped recess was machined in the barrel to receive the belled section, then fitted and lapped in for a perfect fit. With the .32 bore and 9/16 OD we would be looking at what about 1/8 wall give or take.

 

[john.k]

You have to do it in closed dies,as the tube will want to bulge unevenly ..........ive only used the idea in replica BP type calibers like 54 Starr ......mainly because a suitable hydraulic tube is 13mm ID.......this tube is die drawn ,and the ID is incredibly shiny and even ,it needs to be straightened ,which is quite easy ,as bends are only of the order of 005.,and the tube fits nicley into 16mm ID hydraulic drilled ramshaft.

 

[GGaskill]

What do you want to chamber the expanded tubing/liner for?

 

[4575wcf]

8 x 54 Krag Jorgensen, the 6.5 Swede Mauser necked to 8mm with no other changes. I need the 1-14 twist to get better cast bullet hunting velocities.

 

[john.k]

Simple ...try it with an overlength liner .....if the liner splits ,then there is no loss........one factor needing consideration is expansion will reduce wall thickness ............the proof that barrels and liners will expand considerably is the egg bulges often seen in military rifle barrels caused from mishaps .

 

[wesg]

What barrel are you lining? A Krag?

Cast bullets, could probably get by fine drilling the barrel out from the muzzle to intersect the chamber at the shoulder junction. Or a little behind. The angles need to match.

Or a cheap'ish barrel ...

 

[john.k]

You want to live here in Ripoff-O-Stan.........any new rifle barrel is like $US1000 ,liners are five times the price of a new barrel in the US.

 

[4575wcf]

I notice that export of rifle barrels, blanks and liners is now strictly prohibited from the US. I can buy an unturned blank from Douglas for nearly $300 and start from scratch, I can pay a fellow a couple hundred miles away nearly $300 to cut a correct new bore in the 03/A3 barrel. I can reline the 03/A3 barrel with a 32/40 tube 9/16 inch in diameter for about $200 and I have a choice of 1-14 or 1-16 inch twist. Relining to the neck in the Mauser barrel would be the least amount of work and require a shorter liner, but I am not sure I trust it to hold under what is going to be about maximum allowable pressure. To line full length gets the chamber walls down to .03 at the back or so unless I can expand the liner a bit at the breech end.

 

[john.k]

The 7mm Spanish Mausers had a plug silver soldered in to the chamber,then rebored and rifled to 30 cal ,with a 7.62mm x51 NATO chamber cut .........ocassionally there was a small fault ,but considering the thousands altered ,not a problem.

 

[4575wcf]

There is no shooting topic that is packed so full of witchcraft and bs as is the cast bullet game. My 8 x 54 with its 1-9.4" Mauser twist rate drives tacks at 50 yards with Saeco's 190 grain 8 mm bullet cast in hard lead shot and quenched out of the mold into cold water up to 1700 fps. A half grain of powder more and it begins to shoot patterns. Bullets recovered from a soft dirt bank at velocities above 1700 show no damage whatsoever, but they are showing yaw on the paper target. Applied common sense using the rpm bullet calculator on this information implies that the rpm of the bullet is overcoming the strength of the alloy at 130,000 rpm. The 1-9.4 twist produces 176,000 at the desired 2300 fps velocity. No chance for accuracy. A change to a 1-12 twist changes the rpm to 138,000 at the desired 2300 fps, still a tad too tight. A change to a 1-14 twist changes the rpm to 118250 at 2300fps, perfect with a little wiggle room. Of course the 1-14 twist probably renders the rifle useless for jacketed bullets, but for game we should be able to get the cast bullet to begin to open up properly. Right now I am shooting the equivalent of low velocity solids. They will open up a bit on tough game like a wild pig, but they whistle right through small light framed animals. The 8 x 54 was loaded to 2300 fps with the Mauser 196 grain soft point in the rebored Norwegian Krags it was designed for, and was considered a tried and true performer on the Scandinavian Moose.

 

[john.k]

The price of jacketed bullets out here is like shooting money (literally $1+ each) so IMHO not a factor in any decision.........although what Im waiting for now is some kind of ban on lead bullets .

 

[4575wcf]

I have resigned myself to a cast bullet hunting rifle. Most of the rest of my collection gathers dust these days, it is completely impractical to shoot them much. A lead ban would be the next piece of bad news I am sure there is probably one in the works. I smiled too much during the '90s when I was trying to shoot all the available ammo up myself, and the liberal left could not leave that alone.

 

[???]

I notice that export of rifle barrels, blanks and liners is now strictly prohibited from the US. I can buy an unturned blank from Douglas for nearly $300 and start from scratch, I can pay a fellow a couple hundred miles away nearly $300 to cut a correct new bore in the 03/A3 barrel. I can reline the 03/A3 barrel with a 32/40 tube 9/16 inch in diameter for about $200 and I have a choice of 1-14 or 1-16 inch twist. Relining to the neck in the Mauser barrel would be the least amount of work and require a shorter liner, but I am not sure I trust it to hold under what is going to be about maximum allowable pressure. To line full length gets the chamber walls down to .03 at the back or so unless I can expand the liner a bit at the breech end.

The export of barrels is not prohibited, it requires a licence. See below from the Krieger website.

"Krieger Barrels is in strict compliance with all applicable U.S. Export Control Regulations.

Please be aware that the US Government regulates rifle barrels (or any part of a rifle) leaving the U.S. as they are considered Significant Military Equipment (SME). Our barrels may not be exported/sent out of the United States without the required export license. This license is granted by the U.S. Department of State. Further, each shipment must be registered with Homeland Security through the ACE program. All of this must be done by a registered exporter. We are able to help you through this process."

 

[john.k]

from other forums,I gather that certain items under $100US are not subject to export controlls,including barrels under .50" and liners.

 

[???]

from other forums,I gather that certain items under $100US are not subject to export controlls,including barrels under .50" and liners.

Definitely not, there is a full listing of items that are export controlled and none of it is price based. This all goes back to ITAR. Some people take a chance and ship stuff without declaring it and get away with it, not recommended. I had a friend ship a McMillan stock and because the stock is also used by the USMC customs seized it in the US and destroyed it. He didn't care as it was insured anyway.

I do faintly remember something about the Trump administration moving some items from the DOD to the Commerce department if they were purely for sporting use, however don't quote me on this.

I am in the process of developing projectile jackets for target shooting in Australia and was thinking of export potential due to a worldwide shortage. These are now classified as dangerous goods on the list.

 

[4575wcf]

I stand corrected on my statement. The reason that US barrel makers and other companies are not exporting to our foreign shooting friends in other countries is because the process is now licensed and expensive, when there is no need for it to be so. An active shooter is a person who enjoys the shooting sports and intends no harm to others no matter what country he calls home. Yet we get grouped with the crazies.

 

[john.k]

I wonder if the current situation with ADI s powder sales to the commercial market isnt being manipulated by an anti gun government .

 

[???]

I wonder if the current situation with ADI s powder sales to the commercial market isnt being manipulated by an anti gun government .

Doubt it. ADI exports powder around the world. With everyone trying to build stockpiles in case of a peer on peer conflict everything is in short supply. Volume wise the local market for recreational shooters is tiny. They probably tack local orders on the back of their bigger orders from overseas.

It doesn't help that the demand goes up and down all the time with projectiles etc. Sales probably go we will sell everything you can make. Operation's say give us more plant and tooling. Accountants probably say no way, it will return to normal and we will be stuck with stationary plant etc. Keep supply down and prices up.