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Question for Millacron: Why does PM need to limit image size so much?

thermite

Diamond
because the forum software is old potato.

It works fine.

See EG's post.

Good example of "low-load. more if you NEED it" applied as the site provides for.

"Furthermore". we have PM-PM plus "regular" emails backing up public "PM" postings.

MANY instances where one or a few folks out of who-knows? Tens of thousands? Have actual NEED of higher-resolution YET.

Annnd ...helpful members provide those larger files by person-to-person email.

Print data from a catalog or service or parts manual very often needs FAR higher resolution. But only a few who have physical possession of the specific rare/old machine it applies to actually need that level of detail at all, and not often.

LOTS of us have had help of that source from John Oder, but "not-only". There are several among the "usual suspects" who happen to have a document or several - even a "library" of no-longer-common, or were NEVER "common", source material who have shared it that way.

OR . two members sorting out a potential sale or trade that needs finer details or a foto from a different angle of a sub-feature, etc..

If it ain't broken?

What is there to fix?
 

Milacron

Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 15, 2000
Location
SC, USA
I would really like Millacron to get this fixed, and make it easy to post reasonable sized images.
Image size on desktops seems ok, but is curiously small on my iPhone....until I pinch it larger....is that the issue, size on mobile devices ? I will ask PM IT about it.


IMG_5861.jpg

Above image was posted at 2.2 MB but automatically scaled down to 95KB in the PM software. When thumbnail is clicked, image displays at about 6 x8 inches on my 21 inch screen. I admit the resolution is not the greatest as that image was razor sharp before it was posted here.
 

Mud

Diamond
Joined
May 20, 2002
Location
South Central PA
th said:
If it ain't broken?

What is there to fix?

Machining is document driven. This would be a great place to post and read documents. We can't post useful documents here. The file size limit on pdfs is too small to be useful. The photo size is too small to be readable. 1200 pixels wide is about the lower limit for a readable scanned page IF is is scanned very well. A poorly scanned or deteriorated document needs to be even larger to be readable.

Smaller photos can be interpreted, because your wetware fills in the details that your eyes can't make out, and fools you into thinking you are seeing everything in the photo. Not so with text. If you can't tell whether the number is an 8 or a 9 or a 6 or a B you give up on reading it because there's nothing to be learned.
 

thermite

Diamond
Machining is document driven. This would be a great place to post and read documents.

Except that it isn't much utilized in that manner.

It is a different animal. A FORUM for - among other things - asking where to FIND said documents.

A common example is referring members over to vintagemachinery.org.

Now THAT website is not about "discussions". It is a de facto "reference library".

I don't see PM and VM as being in 'competition" for "readership".

Whether by deliberate design or merely fortuitous accident as each developed, I'd class that as "complementary", or "cooperative", rather.

And... that "practice' has developed over time as users take it that way and utilize each to their specific strengths.

PM itself DOES HAVE a section specifically meant to store manuals:

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/machinery-manuals-and-brochures/

Does THAT Forum need improvement?

Or only that we more often remember it exists ...and could be put to more appropriate use than dropping information at random into multiple thousands of OTHER threads?

The way the DB under VB works, ONE upload to that section, then a VB link (indirect OID, I think it is?) dropped into all other threads that might need the same info, and the site's storage needs are better served.

"Run what you got!"


"We" are not making the best use of what is already on our collective plates.
 

Milacron

Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 15, 2000
Location
SC, USA
Machining is document driven. This would be a great place to post and read documents. We can't post useful documents here. The file size limit on pdfs is too small to be useful.
Will ask about PDF possibilities ... below document images are just photos of course....

IMG_5926.jpg IMG_5927.jpg
 

Mud

Diamond
Joined
May 20, 2002
Location
South Central PA
Except that it isn't much utilized in that manner.

It is a different animal. A FORUM for - among other things - asking where to FIND said documents.

Etc, etc, etc.at length, from someone who has never posted a photo or document here to my knowlege.

Logical fallacy. If it's hard to post documents here, they won't get posted here. Not all documents are available elsewhere.

Here's an example of a document I posted in the mauals forum - https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...well-hardness-tester-195561/?highlight=wilson
I don't know of another place to find this, but maybe it's available 100 other places, I don't know. It's used here a lot, it has 31K views, and I've had several PMs of thanks for posting it. The image size makes it borderline readable, a little size improvement would make a huge improvement in readability and printablilty. Here's an example image.

18608d1262470555-wilson-rockwell-hardness-tester-wilsonp5-1024.jpg



I didn't post any more of the manual because it was a PITA for diminishing benefit.

And this doesn't just apply to documents. For example, AlfaGTAs great photo dissertations with photobucket images of the repairs he did were invaluable in the Deckel forum, smaller photos just don't convey the same amount of detail and information.
 

thermite

Diamond
Etc, etc, etc.at length, from someone who has never posted a photo or document here to my knowlege.
"As usual " your knowledge is insufficient. I've posted somewhere between forty and sixty.

MOST of mine have been removed a-purpose because they seem to be a contributor to infuriating potty-mouthed psychopaths as would report their own Mother prematurely dead as an attention-bid.

Who needs that?

dont-give-a-fuck.jpg

Source credit is embedded right in that graphic, FWIW.

Logical fallacy. If it's hard to post documents here,
IF, IF, IF.. it is NOT AT ALL HARD to post photos to PM.

It just isn't that hard. Documents are demanding source. best they be downloadable.

Some of our members might be on their fiftieth go-round of walking other folks through what is a simple process.

Simple things that can block it working? Not allowing "pop ups".

Upload uses a "pop up".
 

Mud

Diamond
Joined
May 20, 2002
Location
South Central PA
IF, IF, IF.. it is NOT AT ALL HARD to post photos to PM.

Some of our members might be on their fiftieth go-round of walking other folks through what is a simple process.
OK, show me how to make that image I posted more easily readable, and printable for use in the shop. ALL of it. I'll wait.

If the means of posting has to be explained that many times, it's not so simple.
 

thermite

Diamond
OK, show me how to make that image I posted more easily readable, and printable for use in the shop. ALL of it. I'll wait.

If the means of posting has to be explained that many times, it's not so simple.

It is dirt-simple. Life is full of things that are simple that some folks "get" and others do not. They aren't the same things for different folks is all.

We seem to all have different sets of strengths and "areas for improvement".

That's a feature, not a bug.

Use the "send email to" feature under the LoginID to get us into commmunciations.

Send me an original FIRST.

"GIGO" Garbage In, Garbage Out if it lacks quality to begin with.

I have editing tools to enhance artwork. line-art and text included.

Let's you and I sort THAT first.
 

Mud

Diamond
Joined
May 20, 2002
Location
South Central PA
First, I would have to find and rescan the original which I don't have time for, I actually have work to do. Second, there's just not enough room in 800 pixels to make it happen. The original was quite readable before it was uploaded and compressed. I do quite well at navigating PM's photo utility to it's capability. Third, I really don't like communicating with you, I'm certainly not about to get into an extended email conversation with someone who likes to type and argue as much as you do.

And not so dirt simple if you have to manipulate a photo to certain parameters before uploading. I'm on other forums that are much simpler and more capable.
 

thermite

Diamond
First, I would have to find and rescan the original which I don't have time for, I actually have work to do. Second, there's just not enough room in 800 pixels to make it happen. The original was quite readable before it was uploaded and compressed. I do quite well at navigating PM's photo utility to it's capability. Third, I really don't like communicating with you, I'm certainly not about to get into an extended email conversation with someone who likes to type and argue as much as you do.

And not so dirt simple if you have to manipulate a photo to certain parameters before uploading. I'm on other forums that are much simpler and more capable.

What can I say? Chaplain's office is three doors down the hall.

I have a M'In law turns 98 in another two months as sends more hi-res graphics of Cantonese home-cooked meals and high-end restaurant meals in a week than the average machinest does of technical subjects in an entire year.

She learned how. Maybe we chikn's are just too young?

:D
 

thermite

Diamond
Will ask about PDF possibilities ...

There are "issues" for a VB site. Not to forget a .pdf file can carry malware, so incoming scanning needs to be there, too.

One of the saner ways to do that is with a separate, but co-located server, fat pipe between them.

One Swiss site I did used three different httpd, two of them "throttled" "Squid" caching accelerator for Z-Server/Medusa, and two different families of database engines, ZODB and PostgreSQL. Multiple RAID.

Easier to secure from harm. Easier to optimize for very disparate tasking.

Serving out manuals in many languages to distributors, dealers, end-users, and seekers to evaluate a potential purchase, 60+ countries, globally is what funded their investment in the website. Saved CHF 35,000 in postal costs, partial year one. Served more seekers sooenr and faster, traffic expanded, cost not. Ran for over a dozen years before they re-did it.

Your guru's will have stats on the b/w effect of graphics-heavy threads.


Storage is cheap. Bandwidth is dear. And failure a MOST unattractive option!
 

MattiJ

Titanium
Joined
May 31, 2017
Image size on desktops seems ok, but is curiously small on my iPhone....until I pinch it larger....is that the issue, size on mobile devices ? I will ask PM IT about it.


View attachment 300234

Above image was posted at 2.2 MB but automatically scaled down to 95KB in the PM software. When thumbnail is clicked, image displays at about 6 x8 inches on my 21 inch screen. I admit the resolution is not the greatest as that image was razor sharp before it was posted here.

95 KB is really tiny by today's standards. Great if you are on a Win95 computer with dial-up modem but otherwise blast from the past.
Resolution of the forum resized pictures is also tad small.

Insert Image" button has also nearly useless "Retrieve remote file and reference locally" option. Most pics I have tried to post from various URL's have been too big giving "error: Remote file is too large"

Server space and bandwidth are not as expensive as they were 20 or 30 years ago. For non-profit hobby site run with someone's pocket money this would be(sort) of acceptable. Overly complicated and limited otherwise.

TEST:

A7xpLk2.jpg


A7xpLk2l.jpg
 

thermite

Diamond
95 KB is really tiny by today's standards. Great if you are on a Win95 computer with dial-up modem but otherwise blast from the past.
Resolution of the forum resized pictures is also tad small.

Insert Image" button has also nearly useless "Retrieve remote file and reference locally" option. Most pics I have tried to post from various URL's have been too big giving "error: Remote file is too large"

Server space and bandwidth are not as expensive as they were 20 or 30 years ago. For non-profit hobby site run with someone's pocket money this would be(sort) of acceptable. Overly complicated and limited otherwise.

TEST:

A7xpLk2.jpg


View attachment 300272

You just posted a 2.6 MEGA Byte image. What's the "95 KB" and Win 1895 s**t about?
 

MattiJ

Titanium
Joined
May 31, 2017
You just posted a 2.6 MEGA Byte image. What's the "95 KB" and Win 1895 s**t about?

Linked from external photo hosting (imgur)
Not everyone wants to go trough extra hoops of maintaining external file hosting.
It is also a risk for forum content. LOTS of good content disappeared from PM forums with the photobucket fiasco.

Value of this website is created by users so why not make it reasonably easy?
And keep the controls in your pockets instead of forcing users to rely on external pic hosting.

I seriously doubt anybody comes "here" only to see the advertisements and e-zine articles that seem sometimes written by someone who wouldn't know lathe from mill :D

Oh, that would be one suggested improvement: Have somebody proof-read the e-zine articles before they are posted.
I mean, seriously?
What Type of Caliper Should You Use? - Practical Machinist : Practical Machinist
Top 10 Tools Every Machinist Should Have - Practical Machinist : Practical Machinist

39 dollar toy tool set? I wouldn't give that even to my 7 year old daughter.
 

thermite

Diamond
Linked from external photo hosting (imgur)
Not everyone wants to go trough extra hoops of maintaining external file hosting.
It is also a risk for forum content. LOTS of good content disappeared from PM forums with the photobucket fiasco.
PM *can* do photo hosting on a separate box and not run that risk.

So suggested already, up thread.

I do not have costs for PM's bandwidth.

I had for a time the actual INVOICES for it when one of our servers was running a full-motion video 24 X 7 constantly updating 'e-zine for the entertainment, stage-show teasers, food & beverage fine-dining and gaming industry of .... MACAU!

'Non trivial exercise", Macau!

Well. it wasn't really just the "one" server, either!

Hong Kong's "Urbtix", Citydata the client was our work as well. Peak traffic of 7 million tickets sales, 26 venues, was about 25,000 souls simultaneously trying to choose seats off a graphic map, all the while said seats were being BOOKED by one of the others in that pool. Update, try again, get frantic, repeat faster!

But never mind.. amateur Linux weenies always DID know more than those who built industrial class sites with mega-buck mainframes or mid-frame Oracle clusters back of them. Bid nine IBM Power midframes. Deliver off five HP Superdomes. Tight budgets? BFD. Same s**t. Different day.

"Carry on!"

:(
 








 
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