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Quick-Tramming Kurt Vises

Probably the most important thing for rapid tramming by simple rotation is ensuring that the vice turns about a fixed point with no play.

Either, as I do, use the swivel base or make some arrangement that converts the slot in the tonge on one side into a pure rotational joint. Either permanently by fixing a round hole into the slot or temporarily by inserting some sort of floating sleeve slightly shallower than the tongue below the clamping nut and washer. If a sleeve is used it may be best to have the lower end sized appropriately to sit shake free in the Tee slot.

Clive
 
About 10 years a member demonstrated indicating in 3 vices one mill in just a few minutes. He was pretty good except the throwing the wrenches down on the table. it would have only added 30 seconds to have been more careful. If you want to look for that thread it was in the CNC section.

LOL I remember that thread, all the whiners commenting on the wrench clattering on the table, rather then what he was doing. classic thread. But that's most shops, there's always a few guys busting their asses, and the rest complaining and coasting along
 
I generally leave one vice on the left hand side and work left to right adding vices

Depending on the time of day, alignment of stars etc, adding another vise and aligning within .0005" takes maybe 5 minutes at most. I expect to get all vices within .0005" of the left hand vice. It's not that hard
 
LOL I remember that thread, all the whiners commenting on the wrench clattering on the table, rather then what he was doing. classic thread. But that's most shops, there's always a few guys busting their asses, and the rest complaining and coasting along
I thought someone here might have saved a shortcut to that thread. His method was solid and worthy of imitation. I do not remember any comments about the throwing the wrench down. I would have fired him if he had done that to my mill. I thought I was the only one that did not like that. :-)

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/setting-up-multiple-vises-video.322353/
 
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Every mill ir lathe I've ever owned I bought used...and they all have an astounding number of 'tool marks' from people dropping and tossing stuff on them. Or worse. It's incredible.

I used to work with a guy who would get mad at whatever he was working on (car, mill, lathe, bike, etc.) and begin whacking it with whatever tool he had on hand. He would try to reason with the piece of machinery, saying things like "Stupid piece of shit! I'm trying to help you by fixing you and you keep fighting with me!" I would, when I was in a good mood, remind him that the piece of machinery had no brains at all....he was supposed to be the one supplying the brains. Needless to say, it never sunk in.
 
Not sure why I could not add text to my earlier post when trying to edit it. On that attached link the dropping of the wrench was not terrible, I still would have been more careful. Not sure if that is the same one that I was remembering, maybe there was a worse one back then. :-)
 
I once fired a guy for trying to tram a tight-bolted vise with a ball peen hammer. It was a nice kurt vise before that.
I worked at several shops near here and there was someone that worked at each that took the ball end of a ball peen to the ways on lathes back in the day. I am not sure who it was or why. Maybe he wanted to be remembered after he left.
 
I have a piece of pre-hard 4140 that I scrapped out on the second op. Long enough to clamp up 3 vises and align all 3 at once. Or at least a thou' or less and tweak from there.

On my manual mill, the 'center' vise has one key to locate it with respect to the collet indexer. I have a block with a Morse taper in it for a center. Drop it in and go.
 
Probably the most important thing for rapid tramming by simple rotation is ensuring that the vice turns about a fixed point with no play.
Bingo.
I've never been a fan of keys. I can tram a vise in 30 seconds or less.
2 vises in-line within 2-3 minutes.
Just make sure table and vise are stoned flat and no debris, snug up a corner and pivot off that.

Lots of people in here making it way more complicated than it needs to be lol.
 
Bingo.
I've never been a fan of keys. I can tram a vise in 30 seconds or less.
2 vises in-line within 2-3 minutes.
Just make sure table and vise are stoned flat and no debris, snug up a corner and pivot off that.

Lots of people in here making it way more complicated than it needs to be lol.
This^^^^

Cleaning the T-slots and making sure the table is free from chips before putting the vise on it takes far longer than tramming the damned thing!
 
Read that guy’s will surface grind the long edge both above and below the mounting ear. Then use an aluminum sub plate they install two precision dowel pins, one above the ear and one below. They can remove the vise while leaving the base to do other operations. When you decide to remount the vise, you slide the machined edge back up against the dowels and snug the vise. Then a quick check with a micrometer. They had very good repeatability when installing the vise.
 
You'd be happy with .0005" across the vise? Jeez...who wouldn't? If you need that much accuracy, resign yourself to a lifetime of indicating.
Am I using a different type of Kurt vise? Because I really don't think it's too hard to get a few tenths across the vise with a good tenths indicator.

Personally I never understood the point of putting a subplate under vises. It takes me about a minute to sweep a vise in.

Or are you guys talking about aligning multiple vises so you can clamp a long workpiece? Because yeah, that's a lot more work to get it just right.
 
Am I using a different type of Kurt vise? Because I really don't think it's too hard to get a few tenths across the vise with a good tenths indicator.

Personally I never understood the point of putting a subplate under vises. It takes me about a minute to sweep a vise in.

Or are you guys talking about aligning multiple vises so you can clamp a long workpiece? Because yeah, that's a lot more work to get it just right.

Agreed, I don't see too much issues getting a 6" sweep to be under .0002.
As far as 2 vises though, it does take a bit more effort, but a total of .001 across say 20" is done in less than 2 minutes.
Disclaimer: I do have the luxury of a 2 x 2 x 24" hardened and ground A2 bar to use for the purpose.
 
You can get .0005" but it doesn't happen fast unless you get lucky. The idea that you're going to put a vise on the table using any preset method and get .0005" with any reliability is asking for a lot.

Like I said, you're gonna be doing plenty of indicating.
 
You can get .0005" but it doesn't happen fast unless you get lucky. The idea that you're going to put a vise on the table using any preset method and get .0005" with any reliability is asking for a lot.

Like I said, you're gonna be doing plenty of indicating.
I don't know about that.

There shouldn't be any "luck" involved if you got your technique down. It doesn't take me more than 3 or 4 passes to sweep it in.
 
You can get .0005" but it doesn't happen fast unless you get lucky.
I only recently bought a Bestest indicator in tenths. Surprisingly I found the extra resolution to be a help. Maybe it was stiction in the 0.0005" indicator and not getting a true reading? With the tenths indicator, it was a few light taps, maybe something to correct an overshoot and it was good to a tenth end-to-end. Try the finer resolution and see if it doesn't improve for you.
 
All of this is dandy................but what about the ways on the mill?? LOL

I'm sure everybody here has perfect ways with no slop or wear.
 








 
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