rabler's Shop and Monarch Lathes Update

[rabler]

Hey folks

Haven't been on here much in the last year. Just posting a personal update, so this is more social than technical. I think that is within the forum rules. I'm posting in the Monarch forum as that is my primary interest in PM and where I've posted the most previously. My use is strictly hobby oriented so I'm trying to tread a bit carefully, these are certainly not hobby class machines so I think I'm Ok.

I own three different Monarchs, a 1944 12"CK, a 1967 612-2516 x 50, and a 1964 Monarch 10EE. The Monarch 12"CK is my regular use machine at this point, I've really gotten to like it. It fits my needs nicely. I rebuilt mine pretty extensively, added a VFD (mostly to avoid needed 3 phase) and a DRO (DroPros). I have it pretty well accessorized with tooling. The motor has been replaced, from 1200 RPM to 1800 RPM, so I have a bit more than "stock" RPM, with the VFD I can get up to about 1000RPM if necessary, but usually run it with the VFD set at 60Hz so I get about 800 RPM max (vs about 550 stock), and use the gears for RPM selection.

The Monarch 612 is running and I use it occasionally. It's really a beast of a lathe, and it has the RPM range to run up to 1500 RPM (stock). I have an RPC that I use to power it, as well as powering a K&T 3K vertical when I use that. The RPC actually uses the original 20HP motor from the 612, I downgraded it to 10HP. I need to do some work on the carriage oil system of the 612, for now I need to manually oil the back way of the carriage when using it. That lathe originally had an Electronic Tracer (ET) with a motor and clutch on the back of the cross slide leadscrew, and that motor drove another oil pump. With the ET long gone, the motor is defunct. This lathe doesn't have a DRO, I'm considering the TouchDRO option to try out on this.

The Monarch 10EE is half way rebuilt and a pending project. I started working on the DC motor, which is a mess with internal wiring losing the insulation. I had built a digital front end to control a Parker 512/504 system, but went to far down that path before realizing how bad of a shape the motor is in. The motor mounted reduction gear box is also almost worn out in one of the gears. I've replaced all the bearings, but the wiring and gear is pending. At this point I'm torn between pushing forward with the DC motor vs. throwing in the towel and going with a modern motor and VFD with the reduction gear included in that. I know that topic can spark some hot debate, not really looking for input, just rambling. But I want to get back to this.

I spent much of 2022 getting a new shop built. 40x56x12. A hobbyists dream shop. Worked quite a bit over the winter to build a digital monitor for my RPC output, so I can log voltage and current on each leg at 1/2 second intervals. Using a microcontroller and FFTs to analyze those values as well as noise levels on each line. Sort of the finishing touch to the shop, I've been building a bridge crane to go in the back half of the shop, getting closer to finishing that. Some of the bearing fits and other details of building that have gone a long way toward testing and honing my machining skills. I'm also working on rebuilding a Tree 750VMC, gutting and rebuilding the control electronics. In short, my shop is a project

Unfortunately this year has been fraught with medical issues so progress has been slow. Just glad to get out to the shop when I can. When I get around to more refurb/improvements on the Monarchs I'll update the old threads here.

edited: thread title per Cal's suggestions

 

[rabler]

If I were to do the 12"CK again I would have used a 5HP 1800RPM motor. Harder to find a VFD that is single phase in, 3 out at 5HP, but using an overrated 3in-3out would have done the trick. With the higher RPM motor some torque is lost for the same HP motor, so the 5HP would have been a better choice. Of course I have the 612 for heavier work so I'm not going to change it now.

Eventually I hope to redo the carriage side of the ways. They are a bit hour-glass shaped so there is some slop in the tool position.

 

[jbeech]

Sounds like you're making very good progress. My 10EE round dial is original and mint but if I were facing what you're facing, I'd be sorely tempted to slip in a modern motor and ditch the existing system. Then again, I'm the guy that takes a nice numbers matching '71 Challenger and update it to larger front disk brakes and add disks to the rear, too because I'm more concerned with my use of it versus what someone in the future may think.

 

[marka12161]

Hope the medical issues are behind you. Other than that, sounds like you're living good.

 

[Cal Haines]

...

The Monarch 10EE is half way rebuilt and a pending project. I started working on the DC motor, which is a mess with internal wiring losing the insulation. I had built a digital front end to control a Parker 512/504 system, but went to far down that path before realizing how bad of a shape the motor is in. The motor mounted reduction gear box is also almost worn out in one of the gears. I've replaced all the bearings, but the wiring and gear is pending. At this point I'm torn between pushing forward with the DC motor vs. throwing in the towel and going with a modern motor and VFD with the reduction gear included in that. I know that topic can spark some hot debate, not really looking for input, just rambling. But I want to get back to this.

...

With as much work as you've put into the drive conversion, I can't imagine changing horses now. You spent the time to design an awesome Parker drive controller, including designing and building two printed circuit cards, time spent programming the micro-controller, then there's the expense of the Parker drives, the boards, all the parts, etc. It would be a real shame not to see it through.

You're within driving distance of TASiron, near Cincinnati; Tim has a bunch of 10EE DC motors with original back-gear units. The time and expense to drive up there and get motor is nothing compared to what you'll spend doing a VFD conversion. And if you want do a proper VFD setup, you still need to resolve the problem with your back-gear.

As far as the motor goes, I would pull it apart and dip & bake the coils. Assuming that they meg out OK after that, install new leads (like Grant did with his motor/generator) and run it. In fact, I would probably go a step further and attempt vacuum impregnation of the windings. I think all you need is an old pressure cooker and a vacuum pump or venturi vacuum generator.

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

You're within driving distance of TASiron, near Cincinnati; Tim has a bunch of 10EE DC motors with original back-gear units.

Cleveland, not Cincinnati (TAS is in Berea).

 

[rabler]

Any idea what they're asking for a motor/gearbox? If I could find a matching 5HP kinematic it might be worth considering, although it this point it more an issue of time than money. Cleveland is definitely an overnight trip, not something I can do there and back in a day. That'll mean some of the medical stuff has to get further resolved first!

 

[Cal Haines]

Andy, Thanks for the correction.

Some time back he was selling motors with gearbox on eBay for $500, local pickup only. He's very difficult to get on the phone, you just have to call every day until he answers. When you do get him on the phone, you'll find that he's very helpful.

 

[gustafson]

Good news
I still enjoy my 12CK
I am pretty sure if it reversed and went over 1000 RPM I would never have bought my EE
I love the action of the handles. So much faster to operate than the EE, and yet not so big to feel cumbersome.
That tailstock though, yow that is a back breaker

 

[Ultradog MN]

That tailstock though, yow

..

M. .that is a back breakert

Good news
I still enjoy my 12CK...
That tailstock though, yow that is a back breaker

I'm surprised by that comment.
What is it that is hard to move?

 

[gustafson]

..




I'm surprised by that comment.
What is it that is hard to move?

That it weighs a hundred pounds or something

 

[rabler]

Good news
I still enjoy my 12CK
I am pretty sure if it reversed and went over 1000 RPM I would never have bought my EE
I love the action of the handles. So much faster to operate than the EE, and yet not so big to feel cumbersome.
That tailstock though, yow that is a back breaker

Are you removing the tailstock? Or just a back breaker sliding it around?
You probably know this already, but the tailstock on the CK has an oil reservoir to keep it sliding easily. I built a small jib crane over my CK to handle chucks, but have used it to hoist the tailstock off a couple times. But normally it stays at the end of the bed. This pic is from the old shop:


I weighed the tailstock on the 612, IIRC around 680 lbs. That is a backbreaker. I had to build a new crank handle to move that thing.

 

[gustafson]

Are you removing the tailstock? Or just a back breaker sliding it around?
You probably know this already, but the tailstock on the CK has an oil reservoir to keep it sliding easily. I built a small jib crane over my CK to handle chucks, but have used it to hoist the tailstock off a couple times. But normally it stays at the end of the bed. This pic is from the old shop:
View attachment 404516

I weighed the tailstock on the 612, IIRC around 680 lbs. That is a backbreaker. I had to build a new crank handle to move that thing.

I have had my 12CK for 32 years and it is well oiled. Inertia is a thing

 

[rabler]

Inertia is a thing

Fortunately I have enough room to be able get around to the tailstock end and push/pull from there. If I had to slide it sideways while standing in front that would hurt.