Request for information about antique wood and metal lathe

[woodspinner]

California's Wilder State Park has a Pelton powered line shaft woodshop that includes a metal/wood lathe of unknown pedigree. We believe it is circa 1890's. I volunteer there and need your help. How old is it, who is the manufacturer and how can I fix the tailstock? I retracted the screw spindle to eject the tapered live center, and it no longer will move in ether direction. Put another way, it turns but does not move the screw spindle.

 

[johnoder]

California's Wilder State Park has a Pelton powered line shaft woodshop that includes a metal/wood lathe of unknown pedigree. We believe it is circa 1890's. I volunteer there and need your help. How old is it, who is the manufacturer and how can I fix the tailstock? I retracted the screw spindle to eject the tapered live center, and it no longer will move in ether direction. Put another way, it turns but does not move the screw spindle.

Grab the body of the TS spindle, gently hold it against the end of the screw while you turn the screw in a direction that would REENGAGE

 

[enginebill]

It was built as a metal lathe. I can't help with the manufacturer though but it is probably from the 1880's.

 

[L Vanice]

If I want to identify an old lathe of that rather common style and period, asking here is the obvious first step. If that failed, I would get out Cope's lathe book and start at the front, page by page, looking at the many pictures to try to find a match. The shape of the carriage apron and controls are the first place I look, along with the tailstock shape and the leg shape.

American Lathe Builders, 1810-1910: Cope, Kenneth L.: 9781879335998: Amazon.com: Books

American Lathe Builders, 1810-1910 [Cope, Kenneth L.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. American Lathe Builders, 1810-1910

www.amazon.com

Larry

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

If the quill was RETRACTED all the way and no longer moves, remove the handle and look for a sheared or missing key. If the quill was EXTENDED and no longer moves, follow instructions in post #2.

 

[jwearing]

Four V-ways... should narrow it down a bit.

 

[Robert Lang]

How old is it, who is the manufacturer.

Prentice Brothers, Worcester Mass., circa 1880's.
This model was probably treadle drive at one time.

Rob

 

[Robert Lang]

1880 ad showing an earlier version of this lathe.
This was when it was B. W. Prentice. In 1881 it became Prentice Brothers.
Benjamin W. Prentice, Albert F. Prentice and Vernon F. Prentice.

 

[woodspinner]

Thanks so very much for your good
suggestion. I and others have tried this many times without engagement.

Prentice Brothers, Worcester Mass., circa 1880's.
This model was probably treadle drive at one time.

Rob

Thank you so very much!

 

[woodspinner]

It was built as a metal lathe. I can't help with the manufacturer though but it is probably from the 1880's.

Thank you!

 

[woodspinner]

If the quill was RETRACTED all the way and no longer moves, remove the handle and look for a sheared or missing key. If the quill was EXTENDED and no longer moves, follow instructions in post #2.

Thank you! Yes the quill was retracted to eject the live center. But as it was fully retracted, the hand wheel suddenly spun easily and it no longer controlled the quill. Should the quill be pressed out to locate the sheared or missing key?

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

Thank you! Yes the quill was retracted to eject the live center. But as it was fully retracted, the hand wheel suddenly spun easily and it no longer controlled the quill. Should the quill be pressed out to locate the sheared or missing key?

Remove handwheel, key or maybe a tapered pin connects it to the screw, should all be accessible with handwheel removed. Should be an easy fix, if you get stuck and are unsure, take pics of the problem and ask here.

 

[magneticanomaly]

It sounds as if the screw has a turned-down neck. The internally-threaded end of the tailstock quill or ram came off the threaded section of the screw and is now over that neck.
If you have enough of the ram still sticking out of the tailstock to grab, try pulling on it as you turn the handwheel as if the extend the ram.
If you don 't you will have to take the handwheel and maybe a collar ofv the end of the screw. Then you should be able to push the screw out together with the quill or ram. Once the pieces are in your hand, you should be able to re-engage the threads as you turn and pull.

 

[woodspinner]

Remove handwheel, key or maybe a tapered pin connects it to the screw, should all be accessible with handwheel removed. Should be an easy fix, if you get stuck and are unsure, take pics of the problem and ask here.

Thank you! A more descriptive term is hand crank (but there is no functional difference). The hand crank is attached to the quill by a threaded nut. There is no key, cotter pin or anything else. I did remove the hand crank and tapped a piece of wood protecting the threaded rod forward (toward the headstock) about 1/4". It moved with some reluctance, and I stopped fearing that I might be forcing something not easily repairable. I should mention that when I was first cleaning the lathe up, the quill was moderately rusted, and I cleaned and smoothed it with steel wool and then oiled it with 30 wt oil.

 

[woodspinner]

It sounds as if the screw has a turned-down neck. The internally-threaded end of the tailstock quill or ram came off the threaded section of the screw and is now over that neck.
If you have enough of the ram still sticking out of the tailstock to grab, try pulling on it as you turn the handwheel as if the extend the ram.
If you don 't you will have to take the handwheel and maybe a collar ofv the end of the screw. Then you should be able to push the screw out together with the quill or ram. Once the pieces are in your hand, you should be able to re-engage the threads as you turn and pull.

Thank you so very much! This suggests that there is no permanent damage, and it is just an engagement issue. Do you think it is appropriate to carefully drive the threaded rod toward the headstock until the threads engage?

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

Thank you! A more descriptive term is hand crank (but there is no functional difference). The hand crank is attached to the quill by a threaded nut. There is no key, cotter pin or anything else. I did remove the hand crank and tapped a piece of wood protecting the threaded rod forward (toward the headstock) about 1/4". It moved with some reluctance, and I stopped fearing that I might be forcing something not easily repairable. I should mention that when I was first cleaning the lathe up, the quill was moderately rusted, and I cleaned and smoothed it with steel wool and then oiled it with 30 wt oil.

I would think there has to be something more than the nut connecting crank to the shaft, otherwise it would just spin on the shaft? But I've never worked on that model of lathe, and every mfr did things their own way. When you drove the shaft forward, did the quill move forward too? Pics, nice close up clear pics please.

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

Thank you so very much! This suggests that there is no permanent damage, and it is just an engagement issue. Do you think it is appropriate to carefully drive the threaded rod toward the headstock until the threads engage?

If the problem is as MA stated, you would need to find a way to pull quill forward while turning crank to re engage threads.

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

Spitballing idea - if the pressure of the nut is the only thing allowing crank to turn the shaft, when you retracted quill the thread on quill bottomed out and possibly jammed and the nut attaching crank loosened allowing crank to spin freely. IF that is the case, the nut attaching handwheel needs to be retightened and held tight while turning crank to make the quill extend.

 

[maynah]

Lots of old lathes have right hand threads
on the tail stock so be aware they may be right or left hand threads.
And I know this is obvious but make sure the quill lock is loose.

 

[Robert Lang]

Yes the quill was retracted to eject the live center. But as it was fully retracted, the hand wheel suddenly spun easily and it no longer controlled the quill. Should the quill be pressed out to locate the sheared or missing key? A more descriptive term is hand crank (but there is no functional difference). The hand crank is attached to the quill by a threaded nut. There is no key, cotter pin or anything else. I did remove the hand crank and tapped a piece of wood protecting the threaded rod forward (toward the headstock) about 1/4". It moved with some reluctance, and I stopped fearing that I might be forcing something not easily repairable.

Posting some pictures of the tailstock in its current state would help.
A note on terminology. The hand crank is not attached to the quill. It is attached to the screw that moves the quill.
Not all early lathes used the retraction of the tailstock quill to eject the center. Some used a knockout slot.
Also if you have an incorrect center, ie not a factory one or one not long enough, the screw may not eject it.
The quill should have a keyway machined in it, or something similar, parallel (in line) with the quill.
Inside the bore of the tailstock would be a key mounted inside. This keeps the quill from just spinning as you screw the quill in and out.
Sometimes this key does shear off. When this happens usually both the quill, screw and hand crank spin and the quill does not move in and out.
When you say the hand crank suddenly spun easily, does the quill also spin too and the screw that the hand crank is attached to or is it just the hand crank that spins?
If the quill is not spinning, then something else is going on (probably not a sheared quill key).
It could be the threads inside the quill have stripped out or part of the threads on the screw have stripped out.
When you removed the hand crank was there a pin or key on the end of the screw or inside the bore of the hand crank that locks the hand crank to the screw?
That is needed to keep the hand crank from just spinning when the quill screw engages the center to knock it out.

Rob