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RESELL CNC ripoff

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
Some of the larger machine movers (Walker/Dunkel) here in SoCal also offer storage for machines, I wouldn't be surprised if the machine is at a machine movers warehouse awaiting it's next shop.

So you are saying they buy machines and just store them local to where they are bought? Does that leave them unable to demonstrate they currently run? I just always avoided brokers. Most of us realize the more a machine is rigged the higher chances of something going south.
 

Laurentian

Stainless
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Location
Canada
Mike, you may want to try KD Capital Equipment in Az. They have always been very helpful and seem to have access to higher end machinery. Maybe they can find you an equivalent or know of one ?

The small Mazak Quick-Turn 8M you sold us back in 2012 is still doing great by the way, that was a good deal for us !
 

triumph406

Titanium
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Location
ca
So you are saying they buy machines and just store them local to where they are bought? Does that leave them unable to demonstrate they currently run? I just always avoided brokers. Most of us realize the more a machine is rigged the higher chances of something going south.

In 2018 RESELL had an Okuma Cadet up for auction, the machine at the time was at the Walker Brothers Warehouse. But because it wasn't under power I wasn't interested.

At the time my understanding the machine had been under power a few days before but was moved by Walker Bros when the shop needed the space.

I can't remember if that was a machine that was owned by RESELL, or if it was a consignment auction.

-------------------------------------

Walker Bros offer a usefull service, if you have a machine shipped that you can't move in right away, Walker Bros will unload at their warehouse for $250, and then store it until your ready to have the machine moved in. I can't remember, but storage wasn't that expensive. If you choose to use another machine mover, they will charge $250 to load onto the truck of the machine mover of your choice. Last time I checked their moving rates were quite reasoneable

I was going to do that with a Mori SL3 that HGR had, Ohio to Walkers, then to me when I created some space. I couldn't get to Ohio to inspect the machine so didn't go thru with the deal.
 

landm1

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
Paso Robles, CA
John,

Thank you for spending time with me concerning our agreement to purchase your xxxxxxxx under purchase order Txxxxxx, I really appreciate it. This morning you disclosed how your internal document and processes work including your implementation of technology to organize your work. Unfortunately all of that system(docusign) are internal systems which were never introduced into our negotiating process with your sales representative and therefore not part of our binding contract, the only document that binds our agreement is our signed purchase order T01599b that includes an agreed upon price between seller and us, the buyer accepted our purchase order via e-mail and you confirmed you received it in our verbal conversation today, 8/24/21.
To our knowledge there is no opportunity for RESELL CNC to escape our agreement regardless of any other, yet unknown and unadvertised processes that you may use internally.
Please proceed with your requirement to provide us with our order Txxxxxx.
As far as the insinuation from your office that we did not commit to purchase at the sellers demand is a moot point, RESELL CNC did not provide us with and itemized invoice, we had no way to verify what goods we were offered to complete our terms of condition concerning inspection of the equipment. Should RESELL CNC choose to not fulfill your part of the agreement it will result in a substantial financial harm to our humble company(custom foundation and machinery re-positioning already completed). We look forward to receiving your itemized invoice as soon as possible so we can complete our agreed upon transaction.

Best regards,
 
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landm1

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
Paso Robles, CA
Mike, you may want to try KD Capital Equipment in Az. They have always been very helpful and seem to have access to higher end machinery. Maybe they can find you an equivalent or know of one ?

The small Mazak Quick-Turn 8M you sold us back in 2012 is still doing great by the way, that was a good deal for us !

KD Capitol is great, we have had success with them, we have even had great projects with RESELL CNC, no telling why we got thrown under the bus on this one. I am thinking we were just at the wrong place at the wrong time, somebody paniked and it is way beyond ugly at this time. Not really sure why they made so many mistakes. I am pretty sure John said RESELL CNC documents are the only thing that matter, you actually have to use them to make them matter?? His management team actually put that in writting, buyer's purchaes orders mean nothing. The way John put it it seems like they use Docusign as a bit of a weapon to intimidate buyers, docusign is just another piece of paper!

"play stupid games and win stupid prises"!

Tim over at Primere Enginering got smart and left town for this debacle, anyone with a brain would want no part of this debacle in my humble opinion and for sure youe love your machines!

The Mazak QT 8 is still going, that is awsome, you are one heck of a good mechanic!
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Airstrip One, Oceania
The thing with buying used machines tho, is that you can't sit on your hands. Maybe with something like a Haas VF2 that the seller knows has a big market, they can afford to dilly-dally but with anything unusual, it's first cash counts. A purchase order is a promise to pay but it ain't money. Get fleeced a couple times on purchase orders and you won't put much faith in them nomore.

We go out of our way to tell people someone else is interested but they always think we're just jerking them around. On the two occasions buyers lost the machines they were furious but what can you do ? "We told you we wanted it !" That's nice but money in one hand, some words on the telephone in the other, which one do you go with ?

It's not nice but it is life ...
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
You really put in a foundation without paying for the machine?

How did you do that? You were able to cut concrete, excavate, form, pour all in this construction climate on a tight schedule without ever putting a deposit on the machine?

Doesn't seem logical.
 

landm1

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
Paso Robles, CA
^ He's right that all you can sue for is damages, and you're going to have a hard time making that stick.

I can appreciate your feelings but between a purchase order (piece of paper, promise to pay, have to go to court to collect, bye-bye profit) and cash, well ....

We've had similar situations a couple of times, what you learn is, until money changes hands it's all talk. If you had made a deposit, you'd have a leg to stand on. Court would still cost more than you'd get but at least you wouldn't look silly arguing about it.

Experience is what you get when things all turn to shit :(

There is a significant amount of finincial harm, the custom 24" deep concrete foundation is just the start, north of $20K so far.
 

landm1

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
Paso Robles, CA
So you are saying they buy machines and just store them local to where they are bought? Does that leave them unable to demonstrate they currently run? I just always avoided brokers. Most of us realize the more a machine is rigged the higher chances of something going south.

Most brokers have a wearhouse, they usually just use a cable with enough juice to start the machine, it can prove the control and critical components fire up but that is about it.
 

landm1

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
Paso Robles, CA
You really put in a foundation without paying for the machine?

How did you do that? You were able to cut concrete, excavate, form, pour all in this construction climate on a tight schedule without ever putting a deposit on the machine?

Doesn't seem logical.

If you let people tell you your purchase orders and your signature are worthless, they are, your loss in my humble opinion.

The machine was "tacoed", the spindle showed evidence of a hard crash but once we demanded Primere Engineering to do a proper inspection it checked out, the spindle had .0002" runout so that is $20K in the next year or so, as soon as RESELL CNC was shown our inspection report from Primere Engineering without our permission("thanks guys") RESELL CNC bought the machine and it got stupid from there.
You should hear John at RESELL CNC blather about how valuable their Docusign invooices are and that your signature and purchase orders are worthless, it is almost commical, I had to hang up on the poor guy, I do not think my train of thought was going to be very productive after that exibit of stupidity, you guys need to man-up with these clowns!
 
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landm1

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
Paso Robles, CA
Hello,



Buying a used machine from RESELL CNC, got the inspection complete, asking RESELL to send over an itemized invoice so we could close, instead, on the next business day the sales rep from RESELL CNC sent us an e-mail that claimed they sold the machine for a cash sale with no inspection contingency, they did not need one, for some unexplained reason the clowns at Premier Engineering gave RESELL CNC ours, thanks guys!

Again, our last communication was asking RESELL CNC to provided us with an itemized invoice so we could close and one business day later, when I brought the issue of our signed and accepted purchase order not being honored, here is the response from RESELL CNC management, she sent over reviewed emails between the sales rep and us, she omitted the last one which the sales rep agreed to provide us with an itemized invoice so we could close:

I reviewed the emails from xxxx regarding this xxx (see below). xxxx made two written attempts to express the need for a decision due to a backup buyer. He asked for a commitment by the end of the day on Thursday the 19th and then again on Friday the 20th.

I apologize for the confusion but we did move forward with another customer’s offer and the machine is no longer available.

Unfortunately, we only had one to xxxx our customers and could not hold the machine without a formal commitment. We do not consider a purchase order as a form of formal commitment.

------------

Not really sure what RESELL CNCs interpretation of "formal commitment" is, at least out here in the west a signed purchase order and agreed upon price is a binding contract, they did not ask for a deposit at any time.
Any comments as to what our next action should be would be greatly appreciated, I am sure we are not the first ones that RESELL CNC walked away from a binding contract due to a better offer from a competitor, perhaps an insider.
As far as Premier Engineering goes, "Thanks Tim" yes, you and Premier Engineering really suck! Pretty sure Premier Engineering was in on it, they sent us a video that proved a high-end Japanese 5 axis machine could drill holes, they did a legit inspection for us last year, this one was probably made to make us walk or their competency has cratered!

Sorry, left out of this was the reply from the sales rep at RESELL CNC to our request for an itemized invoice so we could close the deal, he replayed that he would send it over, instead, one business day latter he sent over the note saying they went elsware for cash offer and no inspection contingency, thank you Premier Engineering for giving RESELL CNC our inspection report!!
 

triumph406

Titanium
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Location
ca
Sorry, left out of this was the reply from the sales rep at RESELL CNC to our request for an itemized invoice so we could close the deal, he replayed that he would send it over, instead, one business day latter he sent over the note saying they went elsware for cash offer and no inspection contingency, thank you Premier Engineering for giving RESELL CNC our inspection report!!

If you paid for the inspection and report, then that's definately not very professional on Premier's part to pass it onto RESELL
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Airstrip One, Oceania
That leaves out the inconvenient fact that the cheapest attorney you can find in California runs about $250 an hour and the civil courts are so backed up you'd likely wait a year to even start and there is no predicting with judges; unless it's a decently big number like $100,000 of which you can expect to get maybe half, and both sides have an equal chance of losing in court, no one actually wins, well ...

He might actually have a better chance in small claims, at least potentially get ten grand for small money in and one day in court, but even that is iffy.
 

triumph406

Titanium
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Location
ca
That leaves out the inconvenient fact that the cheapest attorney you can find in California runs about $250 an hour and the civil courts are so backed up you'd likely wait a year to even start and there is no predicting with judges; unless it's a decently big number like $100,000 of which you can expect to get maybe half, and both sides have an equal chance of losing in court, no one actually wins, well ...

He might actually have a better chance in small claims, at least potentially get ten grand for small money in and one day in court, but even that is iffy.

I would think that in the RESELL fineprint any disputes go to arbitration, that likely would take 1-2 years.
 

Laurentian

Stainless
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Location
Canada
The thing with buying used machines tho, is that you can't sit on your hands. Maybe with something like a Haas VF2 that the seller knows has a big market, they can afford to dilly-dally but with anything unusual, it's first cash counts

Reminds me I saw a pristine Charmilles Roboform 22 ( think it had C axis ) on eBay a couple years ago on a Thursday evening, had just been listed. 5000 buy it now option with 500 down required withing 24 hours or less of purchase. Never seen that clause before on eBay especially on a complex machine tool. So I contacted the seller with questions but he was only going to be back at the machine on the following Monday. Was starting to seem more legit already but felt I needed to wait for more pics, control time on hours and to digest we were going to have to get a machine rigged. Red flags were low price and the rushed deposit thing but ended up someone else hit buy it now that weekend, by Monday it was gone.

Looks like LandM's problem's started when the inspection report got leaked, major issue right there.
 








 
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