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RESELL CNC ripoff

Superbowl

Cast Iron
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Under the Uniform Commercial Code,(UCC) generally an offer to sell and an offer to buy are all that is needed to show that a contract was made. If one of the parties reneges, it would be a breach.

I too think you have a good chance of winning by showing there clearly was a breach of contract, but you can't prove any damages so likely your award would be .........ONE DOLLAR.

You would make your point but would lose your ass in attorney fees.

The concrete work cost is not a damage as if the machine did not pass your inspection then you would be withdrawing and still have spent that money. You also still have the concrete work to use. So no proven damages there.

The court would infer that the machine was contracted for a fair market price so you can still buy another one at fair market price. So no proven damages there.

Any lost profit is speculative as machinists do sometimes lose money on an order. So no proven damages there.

Since you can prove no damages a lawsuit would just be pissing money into an attorney's pocket.
 

Newman109

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Location
Sacramento County, California, USA California
I too think you have a good chance of winning by showing there clearly was a breach of contract, but you can't prove any damages so likely your award would be .........ONE DOLLAR.

You would make your point but would lose your ass in attorney fees.

The concrete work cost is not a damage as if the machine did not pass your inspection then you would be withdrawing and still have spent that money. You also still have the concrete work to use. So no proven damages there.

The court would infer that the machine was contracted for a fair market price so you can still buy another one at fair market price. So no proven damages there.

Any lost profit is speculative as machinists do sometimes lose money on an order. So no proven damages there.

Since you can prove no damages a lawsuit would just be pissing money into an attorney's pocket.

Damages in breach of contract could be calculated as the total value of the contract to the plaintiff.

The value of the pad that was installed would be one measure of his change of position based on his belief that the seller would complete the sale and delivery and not go into breach.

Fair market value has little to do with the matter, since there was a meeting of the minds on the value of the machine.

To say that there would be no damages is going a bit too far. It is of course problematical to start a lawsuit since it is a lot of work in discovery, depositions and the like, yet people do it on a daily basis and the courts are overflowing.
 

DDoug

Diamond
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Location
NW Pa
I too think you have a good chance of winning by showing there clearly was a breach of contract, but you can't prove any damages so likely your award would be .........ONE DOLLAR.

You would make your point but would lose your ass in attorney fees.

The concrete work cost is not a damage as if the machine did not pass your inspection then you would be withdrawing and still have spent that money. You also still have the concrete work to use. So no proven damages there.

The court would infer that the machine was contracted for a fair market price so you can still buy another one at fair market price. So no proven damages there.

Any lost profit is speculative as machinists do sometimes lose money on an order. So no proven damages there.

Since you can prove no damages a lawsuit would just be pissing money into an attorney's pocket.

Damages in breach of contract could be calculated as the total value of the contract to the plaintiff.

The value of the pad that was installed would be one measure of his change of position based on his belief that the seller would complete the sale and delivery and not go into breach.

Fair market value has little to do with the matter, since there was a meeting of the minds on the value of the machine.

To say that there would be no damages is going a bit too far. It is of course problematical to start a lawsuit since it is a lot of work in discovery, depositions and the like, yet people do it on a daily basis and the courts are overflowing.

Resell can also cite Libel and slander for this whole thread and take OP to court....
 

Superbowl

Cast Iron
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Damages in breach of contract could be calculated as the total value of the contract to the plaintiff.

The value of the pad that was installed would be one measure of his change of position based on his belief that the seller would complete the sale and delivery and not go into breach.

Fair market value has little to do with the matter, since there was a meeting of the minds on the value of the machine.

To say that there would be no damages is going a bit too far. It is of course problematical to start a lawsuit since it is a lot of work in discovery, depositions and the like, yet people do it on a daily basis and the courts are overflowing.


Your statement

"Damages in breach of contract could be calculated as the total value of the contract to the plaintiff"

is nonsense in this case. The OP sent ZERO DOLLARS to the seller. No judge is going to give the OP the total value of the contract. If you think so your dreaming nonsense.

The OP could sue for "specific performance" if the dealer still owns the machine but that sounds doubtful. Therefore, he can only sue for damages, and damages must be proven.

You say

"Fair market value has little to do with the matter, since there was a meeting of the minds on the value of the machine."

If you believe this is the case then how would you suggest a judge calculate the OP's "theoretical" loss on the machine he never paid for????? The OP lost ZERO DOLLARS on the machine since he has paid ZERO DOLLARS for it.

The OP still has the pad so no judge would find a loss there as the OP can buy another machine to set on it.

There is no way to for the OP to prove damages that a judge could quantify.
 

rrrgcy

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Location
South Florida
It’s been quite a while for me, but of course there could be compensatory damages, general and special. Compensated generally for difference in price of a similar machine sold to you after the breach at a higher price. The consequential damages can be lost income, foreseeable and not speculative, and you relied on performance by having had a concrete pad constructed. Probably very doubtful you could get punitive damages. Damages may not be much for anything left over to have a lawyer give you more effort than a quick shot to threaten a lawsuit hoping for settlement.

The $ amount at stake in damages is what you’re lawyer will gauge in deciding whether take your case. Um.. you’ll know when you have your chat. Probably no specific performance since machine not unique, but who knows….and you’ll have to pay your lawyer for that result. And maybe you can get an injunction to freeze the sale to the other party to keep the machine from disappearing and awarded to you, but he hasn’t yet paid and is relying on a contract which evidence and reality is going to be disputed (and without money changing hands you’ll need to pay your lawyer for that result). At a trial it could be a nominal award of damages for One dollar like Super Bowl said….(I’ve not seen this nor experience when it happens but it’s there!) Go consult your local attorney!
 

Sam L

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Location
NJ
When we buy used equipment and need them to hold on to it for a while, we leave a deposit or pay the entire balance.
Concrete work will take at least 4-5 weeks to cure plus whet ever time it takes to dig the hole and put the rebar.
In the used equipment world PO's are nice, but they can always be cancelled.

I don't think you have a leg to stand on if you try to sue.
How can you try to make him pay for the concrete? are you saying you can never put a machine on that pad and when you buy another machine you will rip that pad out?

You should take it as a lesson learned.
 

Newman109

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Location
Sacramento County, California, USA California
Your statement

"Damages in breach of contract could be calculated as the total value of the contract to the plaintiff"

is nonsense in this case. The OP sent ZERO DOLLARS to the seller. No judge is going to give the OP the total value of the contract. If you think so your dreaming nonsense.

The OP could sue for "specific performance" if the dealer still owns the machine but that sounds doubtful. Therefore, he can only sue for damages, and damages must be proven.

You say

"Fair market value has little to do with the matter, since there was a meeting of the minds on the value of the machine."

If you believe this is the case then how would you suggest a judge calculate the OP's "theoretical" loss on the machine he never paid for????? The OP lost ZERO DOLLARS on the machine since he has paid ZERO DOLLARS for it.

The OP still has the pad so no judge would find a loss there as the OP can buy another machine to set on it.

There is no way to for the OP to prove damages that a judge could quantify.

One further measure of damages in contract law would be specific performance. If the machine had not been sold to another (breach of original contract), the OP could sue to force the delivery of the machine at the original price.

So your opinion that merely selling the machine to another on different terms would forgive the breach is also nonsense. Clearly, the OP would have some damages. Those could have been decided in Court. To say that he has no damages is, well, silly.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Airstrip One, Oceania
To say that he has no damages is, well, silly.
On the other hand, if every machine dealer went to court every time someone promised to buy then backed out, the courts would be clogged for a decade. OP didn't hand over any money. He's got nuthin'.

Lesson : if you are a small shop and you want something, hand over a deposit. NOW, not three weeks from next tuesday. Then you have a leg to stand on.
 

landm1

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
Paso Robles, CA
Mazak i600.jpg

Problem solved!

It was not that much more money going new, 2 year parts warranty, resale value, Mazak spent a couple of weeks in our shop setting up and training, some bad experiences can have a positive outcome, thank you Mazak!
 

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Freedommachine

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 13, 2020
View attachment 341746

Problem solved!

It was not that much more money going new, 2 year parts warranty, resale value, Mazak spent a couple of weeks in our shop setting up and training, some bad experiences can have a positive outcome, thank you Mazak!

Wow! That's the new variaxis? The control looks awesome. I ran two of them with nexus controls when they first came out. How do you like it?
 

ripperj

Stainless
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Never mind the awesome machine, I’d be happy to have the stock in the foreground! What’s a chuck of 12x18x24” anything worth these days!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Speedie

Stainless
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Location
Midwestern MN/Wi USA
You mean the shill bidders got scared and traded your machine down the line so they wouldnt have to live up to a *working machine? You can bet dollars to donuts that is what happened. That cream puff is probably in a land fill.
 

Ianagos

Stainless
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Location
Atlanta
You mean the shill bidders got scared and traded your machine down the line so they wouldnt have to live up to a *working machine? You can bet dollars to donuts that is what happened. That cream puff is probably in a land fill.

Auctions these days are wild

Saw 2 renishaw omp40s go for over 16k plus 18% auction fees.
 








 
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