RESELL CNC ripoff

[landm1]

Response to RESELL CNC lawyer: 8/25/21


Good afternoon and thank you for getting back to me. It seems the staff at RESELL CNC has omitted or just forgot about critical contractual development between xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and RESELL CNC. The first one is attached, it is an unsolicited promise of “right of first refusal” complete with our purchase order number included in the banner.

The next is the RESELL CNC sales reps last communication, (8/20/21 12:36 p.m.) which supersedes any and all previous communication(typical sales pressure) where the rep promised an itemized invoice for payment.

Per the attached communication from the RESELL CNC rep promising “right of first refusal” is when we started planning, moving machines and cutting the concrete slab in preparation for the delivery, this work takes weeks and additional loading and off-loading at a storage site would add another $12,000 to the project.
For the moment we will not address the ruthless betrayal of our third party inspector for delivering our confidential inspection report to RESELL CNC, which is precisely when all of the trouble started, still investigating.
Please inform RESALE CNC that they have a binding contract with xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx by accepting our purchase order #T02599 and their unsolicited promise of “right of first refusal”. It is imperative that you resolve the issue immediately.

 

[triumph406]

To the OP I'd edit post 41 and take the name of your company out of the last paragraph.

 

[CarbideBob]

A whole lot of silly in the used machine market here.

 

[EmGo]

A whole lot of silly in the used machine market here.

Naive would be a kinder way to put it

landm1, a homemade threatening letter is going to bring zero results. If anything, you are stepping on your own schwantschtucker here by trying to do your own legal work.

 

[landm1]

To the OP I'd edit post 41 and take the name of your company out of the last paragraph.

Thank you, you all have been a real help!

 

[landm1]

Naive would be a kinder way to put it

landm1, a homemade threatening letter is going to bring zero results. If anything, you are stepping on your own schwantschtucker here by trying to do your own legal work.

They wrote the stuff and none of it is under any kind of confidentuality agreement, the downside of not respecting your customers? I am just looking for advise from this forum which has been most helpful.
The legal councel that sent me an e-mail today was selectivly highlighting communication to put our acusations as baseless, I do not think RESELL CNC gave him the ones containg the "right of first refusal" or the final one where the sales rep said he would send over an itmeized invoice so we could close the deal, not really sure if RESELL CNC will waste any more time and money defending what they did and just sell us the machine as promised?

No "threats" anywhere, just documenting what most of us shop owners experience and the dammage incurred from it. As an AS9100 supplier we do not treat customer purchase orders as "worthless", not really sure why the used machine industry has created this really odd alternative business practice which needlessly complicate transactions. We have had a great amount of success buying used machines over the past few decades even with RESELL CNC, this is actually our first really challenging situation and I hope RESELL CNC gets back on track to be an asset to our industry and we get our new machine up and running!

 

[DanASM]

What I am reading from you is that you went ahead with the foundation work based on a "verbal" contract. If you never actually had an invoice in front of you stating what the deal is, then they never had any contractual obligations.

"Verbal Contracts" do not hold up in court. I dont know why they teach people about "verbal contracts". They are not enforceable in any court in the United States.

 

[landm1]

What I am reading from you is that you went ahead with the foundation work based on a "verbal" contract. If you never actually had an invoice in front of you stating what the deal is, then they never had any contractual obligations.

"Verbal Contracts" do not hold up in court. I dont know why they teach people about "verbal contracts". They are not enforceable in any court in the United States.

Response to RESELL CNC lawyer: 8/25/21


Good afternoon and thank you for getting back to me. It seems the staff at RESELL CNC has omitted or just forgot about critical contractual development between xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and RESELL CNC. The first one is attached, it is an unsolicited promise of “right of first refusal” complete with our purchase order number included in the banner.

The next is the RESELL CNC sales reps last communication, (8/20/21 12:36 p.m.) which supersedes any and all previous communication(typical sales pressure) where the rep promised an itemized invoice for payment.

Per the attached communication from the RESELL CNC rep promising “right of first refusal” is when we started planning, moving machines and cutting the concrete slab in preparation for the delivery, this work takes weeks and additional loading and off-loading at a storage site would add another $12,000 to the project.
For the moment we will not address the ruthless betrayal of our third party inspector for delivering our confidential inspection report to RESELL CNC, which is precisely when all of the trouble started, still investigating.
Please inform RESALE CNC that they have a binding contract with xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx by accepting our purchase order #T02599 and their unsolicited promise of “right of first refusal”. It is imperative that you resolve the issue immediately.

 

[johfoster]

Trying to explain to a Lawyer, that they need to explain to a machine broker, that they need to be honorable and do the right thing...good luck there.

"It is imperative that you resolve the issue immediately"

Why? (from there perspective)

Because they will continue to get angry emails from a disgruntled customer?

They have already passed it to their lawyer, and if you want to pursue it farther I suspect you need to now do the same if they are even going to begin to care at all. Even then what a pain it could be.

I hope it works out for you in the end.

 

[landm1]

This as straightforward as it comes and simple. Stop gnashing. You’re not in control of your problem - spending breath here won’t add value beyond giving you some fortitude. Here’s my dose.

Just my take without having fully considered the validity of anything. They don’t care about your new letters. You won’t hear back. If you do their attorney has an incredibly slow month to bill or needs to take from the retainer; that one communication was their obligatory requirement. I think I know enough about the law, the practice, and what offender companies do - I’ve worked as a you know what in an IP firm with plenty of troublesome business situations (even boutiques handle contracts and this seems a simple dispute) before I left for another career. I’m still exposed to plenty of BTB disputes to know what I’d do.

The “ The legal councel that sent me an e-mail today was selectivly highlighting communication to put our acusations as baseless” is ALWAYS the first (and here only) answer to your every point and the signal they’d try to argue it. Let me ask - their communication sure seemed persuasive and left you feeling a bit powerless, right?! It’s lawyerly weight to back-off. But it’s good you’re still in this.

My suggestion: Quick-hire a newer-younger-lower-cost lawyer on contingency (little no cost to you) in your jurisdiction to file a cause of action and file suit immediately. Don’t even think about a small claims effort. Go real and it’d be easy. Your lawyer will probably suggest to send the demand letter posing a solution to pay you something within a deadline. Like 14 or 30 days “or-else.” Its normal to plead the strength of your facts in that letter (by a lawyer!) quoting the applicable state UCC and contract law, and to allege your damages. But it’s ABSOLUTELY normal they’ll blow off responding to your lawyer. Your turn - it’s now time for “or-else” and file.

Get a NEWER not long out of law school attorney on-board now while your interest remains in this. Case analyzed and move forward since there’s probably enough $ in it for the new guy to be worth it to go down the road with a lawsuit for a little while. Get over the nonsense and file suit. DO NOT be afraid of this especially since likely first time. This isn’t a move your unprepared for like seeing the dude with the ball-gag hopping out of a footlocker in some Bruce Willis movie - it’s pretty simple here. Exercise your right. Maybe you’ll need to pay up on some of the service filing costs, negotiate with your lawyer, he’ll know how to set damages with an eye when it’s time to cut bait and go home. You can always walk away from the suit and drop it and move on. Your lawsuit as plaintiff gives YOU the only control here forward and any chance of money; they’ll HAVE to spend to respond. Chances are an offer to settle will arise quickly, take it, and that’ll help defray the loss on your reliance. File suit ASAP, and while I’m not judging your case and giving legal advice, I’m not a practicing attorney or licensed in your state.

This happens everyday and I promise this is the ONLY way you get a dime. Their attorney MUST deal with a lawsuit. He HAS to address your lawsuit pronto. And the $ immediately starts bleeding on their end diminishing their profit from that transaction because they HAVE to respond, it’s simple brutal economics when paying a lawyer to challenge the lawsuit through these initial steps, the company figures it out quickly. You as Plaintiff control the schedule. You’re in control with the lawsuit. It’s NOT that big a deal to skip a couple hrs of work and schedule a sit-down with a newer attorney to review your facts - this seems to be a pretty straightforward matter to advocate, whether your facts are right or wrong, weak or strong.

Next major equipment purchase especially with you spending money in reliance, TRY to do so by purchase agreement not a useless purchase order worth nothing unless you get the damn thing signed acknowledged and in writing from the vendor.

Thank you for taking the time to give me some insight as to the road ahead,I will seek legal councel. Not even sure what RESELL CNC legal help is trying to accomplish, I am pretty sure he was handed cherry-picked communications reflecting RESELL CNC objectives, he is down to long winded he said/she said and staff members trying to remember why they did such odd things, todays letter, it is hard to believe achohol was not involved, playing out just as you said!

 

[Newman109]

That leaves out the inconvenient fact that the cheapest attorney you can find in California runs about $250 an hour and the civil courts are so backed up you'd likely wait a year to even start and there is no predicting with judges; unless it's a decently big number like $100,000 of which you can expect to get maybe half, and both sides have an equal chance of losing in court, no one actually wins, well ...

He might actually have a better chance in small claims, at least potentially get ten grand for small money in and one day in court, but even that is iffy.

So, it's too much trouble, eh? Well, apparently you need to skim the law books. They are full of cases just like this. It's actually a very good case and, yes, I'm an attorney.

 

[EmGo]

It's actually a very good case and, yes, I'm an attorney.

Then you should take it on for him, maybe on contingency, for, let's say, 15% of the settlement ? Make you a big pile of money for very little work !

 

[landm1]

Good afternoon and thank you for your letter dated 8/26/21. Here are the undisputed and documented facts,

1. XXXXXXXXXXX, Inc. e-mailed a purchase order to RESELL CNC for the xxxMACHINExxx

2. RESELL CNC accepted our negotiated offer contingent upon inspection

3. RESELL CNC e-mailed a promised of “right of first refusal”

4. Our unbiased third party inspector took three weeks to complete the inspection and rendered a highly suspect inspections, the RESALL CNC sales rep agreed with our opinion and we demanded a proper inspection which was rendered.

5. On 8/20/21 we e-mailed the industry standard request for an itemized invoice including inventory related to the sale confirmation of missing or un-reported inventory and pre-movement preparation in order close the sale.

6. On 8/20/21 the RESELL CNC rep said he would prepare an itemized invoice for us without comment.

7. No Invoice are rendered

8. On 8/23/21 the RESELL CNC rep e-mailed xxxxxxUsXXXXX, Inc. and stated that RESELL CNC is going with a cash offer with no inspection contingency( they did not need one, for some yet undiscovered our inspection contractor gave our inspection report to RESELL CNC).

We will be loosing a lot of money if our machine is not shipped as soon as possible, please ask RESELL CNC to expedite the process of finalizing the sale of the xxxMACHINExxx.

 

[Newman109]

Then you should take it on for him, maybe on contingency, for, let's say, 15% of the settlement ? Make you a big pile of money for very little work !

I'm sure that the OP could find a local attorney to take his case. He's changed position based on his reasonable expectation of getting the machine and could stand to lose money if he can't get the machine he needs.

Generally attorneys in a contingency setting can contract for 30% of the damages if the case settles and 40% after trial.

I retired a few years ago after doing cases just like this one for a number of years.

It's still a good case.

 

[triumph406]

Good afternoon and thank you for your letter dated 8/26/21. Here are the undisputed and documented facts,

1. XXXXXXXXXXX, Inc. e-mailed a purchase order to RESELL CNC for the xxxMACHINExxx

2. RESELL CNC accepted our negotiated offer contingent upon inspection

3. RESELL CNC e-mailed a promised of “right of first refusal”

4. Our unbiased third party inspector took three weeks to complete the inspection and rendered a highly suspect inspections, the RESALL CNC sales rep agreed with our opinion and we demanded a proper inspection which was rendered.

5. On 8/20/21 we e-mailed the industry standard request for an itemized invoice including inventory related to the sale confirmation of missing or un-reported inventory and pre-movement preparation in order close the sale.

6. On 8/20/21 the RESELL CNC rep said he would prepare an itemized invoice for us without comment.

7. No Invoice are rendered

8. On 8/23/21 the RESELL CNC rep e-mailed xxxxxxUsXXXXX, Inc. and stated that RESELL CNC is going with a cash offer with no inspection contingency( they did not need one, for some yet undiscovered our inspection contractor gave our inspection report to RESELL CNC).

We will be loosing a lot of money if our machine is not shipped as soon as possible, please ask RESELL CNC to expedite the process of finalizing the sale of the xxxMACHINExxx.

I'm sure that the OP could find a local attorney to take his case. He's changed position based on his reasonable expectation of getting the machine and could stand to lose money if he can't get the machine he needs.

Generally attorneys in a contingency setting can contract for 30% of the damages if the case settles and 40% after trial.

I retired a few years ago after doing cases just like this one for a number of years.

It's still a good case.

100% chance that machine is sitting on somebody else's floor and is probably making parts. Who ever has the machine isn't going to relinquish it, it's not their problem.

 

[Mark Rand]

Good afternoon and thank you for your letter dated 8/26/21. Here are the undisputed and documented facts,


5. On 8/20/21 we e-mailed the industry standard request for an itemized invoice including inventory related to the sale confirmation of missing or un-reported inventory and pre-movement preparation in order close the sale.

You were raising issues, hadn't fully commited to the sale (that's a refusal), they got a cash offer. An offer to sell and an offer to buy are not a binding agreement. You had not exchanged money, there was no binding agreement. End of.

Walk away. Look for another machine.

 

[CarbideBob]

Deals of all kinds sometimes go bad even if you are in the right.
Not sure what the OP hopes to accomplish by going all out and mad about it. Seems rather wound up.
That not so good for one's blood pressure or life span.
I'd think find a new option and get back to work and making money.
I've been ripped off way bigger than this and I do know it is hard to walk away and get on with things so the frustration is understood.
The sun will rise tomorrow on a new day. Choose to be angry and miserable or watch the sun rise and be glad to be alive.
If the goal to trash these people you have made your point.
Bob

 

[Newman109]

You were raising issues, hadn't fully commited to the sale (that's a refusal), they got a cash offer. An offer to sell and an offer to buy are not a binding agreement. You had not exchanged money, there was no binding agreement. End of.

Walk away. Look for another machine.

Under the Uniform Commercial Code,(UCC) generally an offer to sell and an offer to buy are all that is needed to show that a contract was made. If one of the parties reneges, it would be a breach.

But I agree that he has little chance of getting the machine in question at this point in time since it's obviously been sold to someone else. Probably best to look around and find an honest seller with a suitable machine.

 

[Superbowl]

Under the Uniform Commercial Code,(UCC) generally an offer to sell and an offer to buy are all that is needed to show that a contract was made. If one of the parties reneges, it would be a breach.

I too think you have a good chance of winning by showing there clearly was a breach of contract, but you can't prove any damages so likely your award would be .........ONE DOLLAR.

You would make your point but would lose your ass in attorney fees.

The concrete work cost is not a damage as if the machine did not pass your inspection then you would be withdrawing and still have spent that money. You also still have the concrete work to use. So no proven damages there.

The court would infer that the machine was contracted for a fair market price so you can still buy another one at fair market price. So no proven damages there.

Any lost profit is speculative as machinists do sometimes lose money on an order. So no proven damages there.

Since you can prove no damages a lawsuit would just be pissing money into an attorney's pocket.

 

[Newman109]

I too think you have a good chance of winning by showing there clearly was a breach of contract, but you can't prove any damages so likely your award would be .........ONE DOLLAR.

You would make your point but would lose your ass in attorney fees.

The concrete work cost is not a damage as if the machine did not pass your inspection then you would be withdrawing and still have spent that money. You also still have the concrete work to use. So no proven damages there.

The court would infer that the machine was contracted for a fair market price so you can still buy another one at fair market price. So no proven damages there.

Any lost profit is speculative as machinists do sometimes lose money on an order. So no proven damages there.

Since you can prove no damages a lawsuit would just be pissing money into an attorney's pocket.

Damages in breach of contract could be calculated as the total value of the contract to the plaintiff.

The value of the pad that was installed would be one measure of his change of position based on his belief that the seller would complete the sale and delivery and not go into breach.

Fair market value has little to do with the matter, since there was a meeting of the minds on the value of the machine.

To say that there would be no damages is going a bit too far. It is of course problematical to start a lawsuit since it is a lot of work in discovery, depositions and the like, yet people do it on a daily basis and the courts are overflowing.