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Resurrecting 1960 10EE with 460V Sabina drive

Another possibility is sourcing a replacement from one of the scroungers hoarders collectors here in the forum. Finally you might call Scott at Monarch and see if they have a used/good part, in my experience their used/good is my NIB.
 
Cal - thought I had posted here in response.
Agreed - it's a weird set up - to have a shaft that is the wear point - rather than a replaceable bearing...

Your solution would allow the existing shaft to be used - which is kind of interesting.
Down side would be any potential wear moving to the gear I would think - as the bearing OD would now abraid that rather than the shaft?
...
The washer/race wearing against the gear wouldn't be a problem. Done properly, the washer would remain stationary against the face of the gear. The way these things work is that something has to align one of the washers; it can align on either the ID or the OD. The first washer then aligns the other washer, via the bearing balls.
I want to go back and take a closer look at the shafts.
Looking at pic - wondering if they are pressed into the casting with the hole in it where I show the arrow - or if they turned down a large casting to create the entire part?
The latter would explain why they are so soft, if that's the case.
The former would make them simpler to repair/graft new shafts onto.

Any thoughts on that from those with experience?View attachment 419126d
I doubt that's a casting. If so, it would be cast or forged steel. But I seems like it would be easier to just machine it from a bar, since almost every part of the rod is machined.
 
I doubt that's a casting. If so, it would be cast or forged steel. But I seems like it would be easier to just machine it from a bar, since almost every part of the rod is machined.
That's what I would have thought as well.
However - the texture shown below suggests it was not turned from a single bar? This looks like some kind of cast texture to me.Screenshot 2023-12-08 at 1.16.13 PM.png
 
The washer/race wearing against the gear wouldn't be a problem. Done properly, the washer would remain stationary against the face of the gear. The way these things work is that something has to align one of the washers; it can align on either the ID or the OD. The first washer then aligns the other washer, via the bearing balls.
It's a savvy fix.
I would just need a lathe to do a nice job of cutting the relief...
Story of my life.

Time constraints due to a pressing project have me considering re-assembling what I've rebuilt onto the lathe now - and coming back at the body at my next break.

I'm taking the day to clean/organize and consider what's next.
On a positive note - I blindly bought a taper attachment (mine had been missing) off eBay about a year ago.

It showed up at 5:45 in the morning on a listing - and at a great price.
I only had one eye open when I hit the "buy now" button.
Later, reading other threads - realized there were two different models.
Luckily - looks like this fits my machine nicely.

All there except the dial of course...
Shame - but I will come up with some plan for that as well.
As it came to me:
IMG_4674.jpg

Current status
IMG_5697.JPG


Question: is it a sight glass or a sight plastic?
Don't want to trash when cleaning up.IMG_5702.JPG
 
Interesting. The gears are definitely not designed to center the outer washer. From what you said, the ID of the bearing is a close fit to the shaft, so it's being aligned on the ID. Apparently, in this application, wear due to the hardened washers rotating about the shaft isn't a big problem. Do you have a good photo of the shaft that might show if there were wear in that area?
I can confirm. No counter bore. Only recess was a bronze inner bushing was pressed into mine. The shafts also had a fair amount of wear. Looked like they were turned down from a solid casting. Might make sense to bore them out and use a bearing in there.
 
Have had my machine re-assembled but not fully repainted for the last few months.
Needed it for other projects - and I've gotten pretty speedy at tear down/re-assembly...

Have a short window and decided to jump on the body prep and paint.
Plan is to pull the gear box - but not the headset or bed.
Think I can get a nice result.

Have a question - hoping for a bit of direction.
Have been using this as my guide: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/square-dial-gearbox-removal.172793/

He shows this gear needing removal (not my machine pictured).
Gear - just to right of stick.
IMG_5345.png

Not clear to me why this is critical to remove.
Can someone comment on why/if it has to come out?

Thanks!

BTW - image showing the progress:

IMG_5713.JPG
 
...

Have a question - hoping for a bit of direction.
Have been using this as my guide: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/square-dial-gearbox-removal.172793/

He shows this gear needing removal (not my machine pictured).
Gear - just to right of stick.
View attachment 436726

Not clear to me why this is critical to remove.
Can someone comment on why/if it has to come out?
That gear is on the end of the threading output shaft of the headstock. It sticks into the back side of the end-gear housing. You won't be able to remove the gearbox with that gear in place.
 
Thanks Cal.
Just couldn’t get my mind around why that one gear had to get removed.

Was evident the moment I removed the gear and felt - as you explained.

Machine is stripped of parts and getting close to paint prep.

No turning back now.
This things gonna be red before the end of the month.

228C4EB2-3F93-4556-832A-E0AE309593A0.jpeg
 
Follow up question regarding gear box shaft seals at handles.
When I removed the handles - it created some leakage at front of gear box.

That sort of surprised me - as I doubt the handles are involved in any sort of oil retention.
Or perhaps they are - and pressure whatever seals.

Can someone educate me on what the gearbox shafts are sealed with/ direct me to any slick upgrades if other's have improved on it?
Thanks,
IMG_8088.JPG
 
Read through gernoff's square-dial gearbox rebuild thread, see what he used (or send him a message):
 
I'm not near my reference materials but that shaft looks to have a packed seal - there's a second ring between the outermost ring and the inner shaft. Bet you could thread that out with a face spanner and find some valve packing behind it. I usually refresh those with graphited PTFE.
 
I'm not near my reference materials but that shaft looks to have a packed seal - there's a second ring between the outermost ring and the inner shaft. Bet you could thread that out with a face spanner and find some valve packing behind it. I usually refresh those with graphited PTFE.
Just the sort of insights I was looking for.
Is this the sort of thing you mean?
1761C211-C1B1-4B87-98A6-5AA388EA9057.jpeg

I have no experience with this type of “packing” - all my motor work utilizes some form of modern viton shaft seal.

Would welcome any info/ specs u might have once back in front of ur ref. Materials tho.
 
You won't know what you need until you open it and see. Sometimes I get the bigger stuff and unwind it for the size I need. For something like this you can just wind it and pack it in until you have enough that the nut closes it up without adding a lot of turn resistance to the shaft.
 
For some reason, I remember putting a lipped seal there. On the parts diagram, there is a part# 548-2, which looks to be a seal of some sort. The only one I remember with packing string is the open/back gear selector speed control knob assy., and of course that one weeps a bit. BTW, I may have mentioned it prior, but you can retrofit off -the -shelf lipped seals on both gearbox to apron output shaft housings. The original just used labyrinth non seals in this location, which almost wrecked mine by allowing coolant , etc into the gearbox.
 
Thanks Russ.
I can make hay with that.
Will see if YouTube has anyone "packing" an opening as well.
Should be able to figure out the fineries of too much/ little/ tight/ loose - with a little experimentation.

Daryl - good heads up.
I have some rust in mine.
I see others with same.

Suspect those shaft seals might be the culprits.
I will certainly have a look and see if I can spec a modern lip seal at the output shafts.
I was half thinking others would pipe up and recommend for all the shafts.
Assume there’s a reason they don’t fit - at least without some modifications.

Away from the machine for the week - but will have a closer look at the goings on when I'm back - loaded up with the insights above.

As always - much appreciated.
-CM
 








 
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