Ridiculous NDA's...edit them or reject them?

[thermite]

That’s an honorable move, bravo.

You are all most welcome.

How long ago was Wed, 14 Apr 2021 10:42:37 -0400?

And what has transpired SINCE?

 

[donie]

Cant seem to address those racist post termite, seems your very last buddies are trying to rescue you. But you have your own dick stuck in your own eye socket again!
Now I know why, you think you are better then anyone else!

 

[CarbideBob]

I can not understand half of what thermite writes even when reading it slow four times over.
donie is up front and madman about something stuck in his craw.
It is entertaining but I do not get the underlying thing and the why anymore. Yes I have been here long enough to have seen the fire get lit.
A fun thing to think about is if you were both my employees on the same team. Meetings would be exciteful.
The fever pitch, hate and disrespect for other side, people hurt and responding with things that should not be said.
I sort of miss the old days but not sure it translates so well to this this sort of on line communication.
Bob

 

[Homebrewblob]

I can not understand half of what thermite writes even when reading it slow four times over.
donie is up front and madman about something stuck in his craw.
It is entertaining but I do not get the underlying thing and the why anymore. Yes I have been here long enough to have seen the fire get lit.
Bob

It gets to a point where the original issue is moot ya know? I wasn’t around to see the swirl down the drain start but all I know is it’s in the waste treatment by now, just waiting to see it come out “clean”.

I enjoy a lot of thermite’s posts but plenty make my head spin no doubt.

I seen a lot of good threads/posts from donie but unfortunately for me by the time I came around with my vintage machines donie had already gone off the rocker.

It is what it is I suppose. I like this place and most of who frequents it. Except EG, he’s terrible but I will keep my issues exactly that, MY issue.

 

[CarbideBob]

........... I like this place and most of who frequents it. Except EG, he’s terrible but I will keep my issues exactly that, MY issue.

One should not call names. I think that CarbideBob guy is a few bricks short of a full load.....

 

[cyanidekid]

this bullshit could be fixed in seconds if SOMEONE was actually running this shitshow. just get rid of the abusive, derogatory posters, and anyone who propagates hate and provably false and dangerous misinformation. yes, there is, within tolerances, an objective truth, and there should be such tests for posts. give posters a 3 strike policy.

 

[thermite]

One should not call names. I think that CarbideBob guy is a few bricks short of a full load.....

Whew.. damned glad you did that!

I was about to butt in, remind you of the AGE difference .. and ask why you thought I could stand your contrarian ass on MY team for even five minutes!

But now I will not need to do that.

Thanks! It might have tarnished my reputation, y'see...



Now ..

If I can just sort out "reputation for WHAT?" .. we might even get our paychecks on-time ...for a change?

Accounting Manager DID go freakin' BALLISTIC at one Company when I paid a new hire out of MY pocket. She was pissed more about him getting "gross" with no DEDUCTIONS as much as anything else.

"He started a week before the end of the cycle. He won't get paid until NEXT MONTH's cycle!"

"Why would he or I have to give a s**t about your petty little problem?"

"He's still here? He pays me back a loan."

"I happen to FIRE his ass, he has a severance package!"

She forget I was a Direct Report to the CFO. And she was not.

Policy got changed.

Next ten years were easier.

 

[JST]

NDAs, do whatever they say they do, if you sign them. It will cost money to get parts of it retroactively invalidated. So make sure it is right when signed.

I have gotten NDAs that when interpreted as is possible to interpret them, would essentially forbid me to use any circuitry (this was for EE stuff) that was used in their project, even if it is shown in textbooks and has nothing to do with their actual secrets. I didn't sign those. While they are probably invalid, as mentioned, it would cost money to prove it.

I made up a one-pager. It has a place for the client to list the secrets they want to cover (described generally is OK), and it covers ONLY that stuff. I agree not to disclose those items, and not to use them, etc. The usual reasonable restrictions, although I included "unless required to by law".

It specifically says that any generally known and published items are not covered, that I agree to not tell anyone that the client uses those things, but that I am free to use them for any purpose whatever. And that I will not disclose processes etc that I see to others, all again "unless required to by law".

That "required to by law is apparently important"... if you are ever for some reason subpoenaed and required to disclose what you saw, you want to have coverage for doing that. Otherwise either you violate the NDA, or you may be in contempt of court.....apparently an NDA does not always exempt you from giving evidence, but you can still be held liable under the NDA if you DO give evidence. Or so I am told by lawyers, anyhow.

There are a few more details, but essentially that is it.

Simple, makes the client state what they want to be secret, so if they didn't list it, it's not covered. None of the BS that attempts to basically seize anything they happen to use and make it their property.

Some take it, some insist on theirs, but if I don't like theirs, I don't have to work with them.

 

[thermite]

.. but if I don't like theirs, I don't have to work with them.

Pulled the plug at age 49, novated a new Company so I didn't have to work for ANYBODY I didn't feel like serving. We had a list of countries we would not work in. At all.

The usual rude-buggers such as Cuba, North Korea. The "Islamic World" Or anywhere too heavily influenced and rife with strife over it. India, for example.

And.. the USA.

"WHY? I was asked. "You are a US citizen with over 33 years of USA experience?"

"That... IS 'why'"

We could be right as right can ever be. And not begin to be able to afford the US legal system's impact. Nor the cost of insurance.

And that wasn't just legal fees.
It was our scarce TIME!

TONS of forms to file over who was interviewed then hired or not hired.. reporting on ethnic basis. And not-only. Even HONG KONG had those!

So the Corporation was forbidden ... to EVER have ...any employees.
Contracted even the fool paperpwrk and telephone answering.

Directors.. were not compensated, either. No wages. No reperts about them.

Masses of paperwork no longer required quite aside?

US was nine times as likely to litigate as 2d place "winner" - Japan.

US was twelve times as likely to litigate as the third-place - UK.

All the others on-planet ... were waaay down the list.

I like the way Bob Heinlein often described advanced civilizations .... or primitive but happy and enduring ones alike:

"and there is no word in their language for 'Lawyer'"

Ever wonder what they knew that we do NOT know?

When.... was the last time.. a paying customer came with cash to say:

"Here... is the thousand dollars we owe you for that gadget."

"And here... is an extra fifteen hundred bucks because you hire well-dressed Lawyers and keep nice files."

Well. they DID have to pay you for exactly that.

But it wasn't a $1,000 invoice. It was a $2,500 invoice.

Go figure OUR costs have also been covering our suppliers burden ... and our suppliers have been covering...

Guess we need more regulations?

Actually.. "there oughta be a Law..."

 

[car2]

I've always found the best way to handle completely unreasonable NDA's is to politely state that their NDA does not conform to a a general industry standard bilateral engineering NDA, and tell them I will send one as an example, if they like. And it is the case that almost every NDA I have signed, or presented, is a one-pager with almost standard terms in which the parties fill in their names/addresses/topic and type of info. being exchanged. If the offered NDA just has a couple of issues, it's OK to react those, but no point in going back and forth over some unreasonable crap that a lawyer fleeced them on. Those ridiculous ones usually come from inexperienced individuals/companies.

NDA's are hardly worth the paper they're written on (I know this by experience), even with provisional patent applications submitted...but that's another topic. However, if a party wants have a chance to protect their info, they'd better have at least a provisional patent submitted, particularly with the first to file patent rules in place now.

 

[thermite]

However, if a party wants have a chance to protect their info, they'd better have at least a provisional patent submitted, particularly with the first to file patent rules in place now.

LOL! Wife's HS & Uni grad years are local legends for the high achievers and great fortunes they produced, "back in the day" as the barefoot-poor were going Hell for Alpha Centauri at building poor-no-more-and-never-again billionaire fortunes.

Of 134 Lawsters?

ISTR 14 went into IP & Patent Law.

In Hong Kong. And Guangzhou.

Others made their billions.

THOSE poor optimistic bastards picked a future that never arrived, damned near starved clear to the death before changing horses to some other Legal speciality!

While you/we are doing all that paperwork?

Sombody somewhere in the world - not just "China" - who has less to eat.. and less to LOSE.. is delivering YOUR product ... and getting paid for it.

Turn loose the dogs of Law on them?

Their company goes tits-up, Friday, all the players scarper, their NEW company is making the next ripped-off product the following Monday.

CON-tract paperwork? Don't use glossy "clay coated" papers.

Messy bizness trying to wipe yerazz when the softer, cheaper, US dollars have all been used-up.

 

[Limy Sami]

A thread just made for the bullshit button.

 

[donie]

termite, you indicate you are somehow part of the admin of this forum, calling yourself the PM Powerful Mentor.
You have two sub forum moderators that are hobby machinist, no pro experience, covering for you, and protecting your fucking racist troll ass!
I would think those two losers need the boot also! It does appear the forum is racist to the very core.
the racist circle jerk on a machinist forum, how sick is that? No wonder none of your crew can post any photos or work.

 

[thermite]

A thread just made for the bullshit button.

Wondered if you would decide to make a "product" in yer old age .. just to keep yer hand in.

Can PM members get a special price?

Or do we have to turn in a used "core", no casting cracks.. so you can refurbashit?

 

[donie]

Ha, the termite cant stop skull fucking his own head, because he popped out his own eyeballs and now he cant see.
Stupid fucking fake machinist, racist troll. Some Powerful mentor!
Your own words are your undoing, just as I predicted!
The Monarchist post, tsk tsk.

 

[Homebrewblob]

Ha, the termite cant stop skull fucking his own head, because he popped out his own eyeballs and now he cant see.
Stupid fucking fake machinist, racist troll. Some Powerful mentor!
Your own words are your undoing, just as I predicted!
The Monarchist post, tsk tsk.

Your just sabotaging yourself donie. I knew a Donnie that smoked meth, I’m starting to wonder if you are one in the same.

 

[implmex]

OK, after Donie's little shitfest, let's get back on track:
So here's the promised follow-up.

I got a blurbie back from the "Senior Systems Engineer" advising me of the following:
"Since we use a single NDA form for all vendors due to management purposes, my supervisor has kindly requested the NDA to be signed without revision"

So I muffled a good laugh, mentally told them to pound sand, and decided to Google them just for fun.
Turns out they have a very self absorbed young founder who's Linkedin page reads like a major self gratification event...you know the kind.
He's founded several startups all of which appear to be kind of aspirational rather than practical, and he has one small clothing company that does biking gear and actually has a product offering you can order on-line.
The gear seems to be as much about the branding than about the quality...it may be good, it may even be exceptional, but the naming scheme...oh my fucking God!

Their new company website (still under construction) is mostly cute buzzwords and mission statements and far reaching goals of the kind to make you want to puke.
Their claim to fame is to facilitate their peerless vision with on time performance metrics and iterative digital prototyping and innovative machine/mechanical interfaces and.... want wank wank.

Apparently (best I can decipher) is they want to revolutionize all things bicycle with their unparalleled expertise in the cycling and sports apparel world.
For a fat fee, they'll do it for you and your fantasy too!

So I'm really really unmotivated to get into bed with these jerk off artists.
I won't be sending back a signed, unmodified NDA.

Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

 

[specfab]

Hi All:
I had a very nice conversation with a young engineer this morning about a new project his company wants my design input on, and my prototyping services after the design is finalized.
We discussed how I might go about it, and at the end of the conversation he asked me to sign an NDA that he would send.

I received it.

Yep...it was written by an asshole lawyer...sign away your rights to your firstborn child...remedies for damages to all assignees and successors in perpetuity, all my shit is now their shit and I can't ever use it again or even talk about it... wank wank wank.

Since they want MY expertise and not the other way round, I have zero interest in signing it as written.
So I crossed out whole chunks of it and sent it back for their review.

I am curious how they will respond, and I will certainly post a follow up if they do respond.

So how would you guys handle it...edit it, or refuse it?
Why would you pick the course of action you propose?

Fuckin' lawyers!! They can screw up ANYTHING!

Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

An NDA is always a subject of negotiation when one party wants it. In many cases in my personal experience, as part of a company that has previously developed proprietary technology for both standard product offerings and custom contract items, we always have mutual NDAs with the customer who wants something in place to protect their interest. It usually starts with the customer's document, which we edit, and turn into a mutual NDA. Your IP should always be your IP, and you shouldn't give away any rights to IP that you create during the development process. It's rarely necessary to engage a lawyer, especially after you have seen a few of these and edited out the really tedious parts. Typical NDAs ask for the moon, and you have to bring back a sense of reality for most of them.

***looks like you were writing while I was as well. Now it's your choice. The "single NDA for management purposes" indicates a lack of interest in having a good supplier relationship.

 

[stephen thomas]

Implemex, from your description it sounds like a company/founder that Forbes profiled within the past 12 months.
Owner flies? Said activity perhaps represented a bit more flamboyantly than FAR's might anticipate?
Since you know the names, it would be easy to search if you still have any interest.
The article more or less (in my reading) states what you did, in more detail, with pix.

smt

 

[implmex]

Hi Stephen:
Nahhh I checked after you posted.
Small potatoes with big dreams is more like it.

Much of the product development world is going this way however, so maybe he'll make it onto Forbes pages one day too.
I don't begrudge him his success...I just find it hard to be enthusiastic about all the jargon and the dippy philosophical underpinnings.
And when it comes down to it, they all eventually come knocking on the doors of old farts like us in order to sort out the box they've driven into.

But they're the ones who end up with all the resources and guys like me are probably fools for refusing to embrace the trend.

Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining