Rivett 1020S Restoration

[jreiland]

Hello everyone!

I'm starting this tread to share this project with you guys. I purchased the Rivett 1020S that was posted in the for sale forum. I knew it was in pieces and was assured it's complete, when I arrived to pick up the machine, it was a little more disassembly and daunting than I expected. Either way we loaded it and took it home. It does appear to be complete, the previous owner didn't take many pictures during tear down but did provide the Rivett manuals with drawings. Attached is a teaser photo, more to come.

 

[zamboni2354]

Take lots of photos!! Congrats on your new machine.

Jeff in long beach

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[m-lud]

Hello everyone!

I'm starting this tread to share this project with you guys. I purchased the Rivett 1020S that was posted in the for sale forum. I knew it was in pieces and was assured it's complete, when I arrived to pick up the machine, it was a little more disassembly and daunting than I expected. Either way we loaded it and took it home. It does appear to be complete, the previous owner didn't take many pictures during tear down but did provide the Rivett manuals with drawings. Attached is a teaser photo, more to come. View attachment 344582

I have purchased more than one basket case and its always a learning experience along with a few foul words muttered along the way.
It will make a good educational thread for the forum and other Rivett owners. Lots of photos and explanations help.
Enjoy the journey then enjoy the lathe.

 

[tailstock4]

Hello everyone!

I'm starting this tread to share this project with you guys. I purchased the Rivett 1020S that was posted in the for sale forum. I knew it was in pieces and was assured it's complete, when I arrived to pick up the machine, it was a little more disassembly and daunting than I expected. Either way we loaded it and took it home. It does appear to be complete, the previous owner didn't take many pictures during tear down but did provide the Rivett manuals with drawings. Attached is a teaser photo, more to come. View attachment 344582

I thought since I’ve been where you are about to go, I thought I’d post a couple pictures of my Rivett. I disassembled my entire machine and changed almost every bearing in the machine including the spindle bearings. I did the same thing to the 10EE that sits next to it. I did the Rivett first and the only regret I have with it is that I decided to completely restore the original drive. After finishing the drive conversion on the 10EE, I now wish I had done something similar in the Rivett. The VFD drive in the 10EE is far superior to the original drive in the Rivett in almost every meaningful way. The drive in the Monarch is quiet, powerful, produces almost no heat or vibration, and so far, it has been reliable. I have five other VFD conversions in the shop, all of which have been trouble-free and the oldest of which is over 25 years old.

Also enclosed is a picture of the spindle bearings from the Monarch and the Rivett. There are some real differences between the machines, and the Rivett had a custom preload which led to several other issues and a longer story. I’ll be interested in what you find when you get to that point.

 

[beckerkumm]

That Reeves does look beautiful though. Do you think it runs as smoothly as when new or does the design just not compete with your vfd conversion? As I recall you did about as high end conversion as possible, TENV vector motor, new attachment for the gearbox, very high end vfd, and new pulleys for low end torque. I would bet not many 10EE vfd conversions are comparable. Dave

 

[tailstock4]

That Reeves does look beautiful though. Do you think it runs as smoothly as when new or does the design just not compete with your vfd conversion? As I recall you did about as high end conversion as possible, TENV vector motor, new attachment for the gearbox, very high end vfd, and new pulleys for low end torque. I would bet not many 10EE vfd conversions are comparable. Dave

I do believe the drive in my Rivett is restored to nearly new condition. I replaced all the bearings in the drive, re-faced the Reeves drive pulley shivs, and then balanced them. I reground the surfaces of the magnetic brake, re-wired everything and replaced the friction plate. The drive works well and is reasonably quiet and usable. However, there are a few short comings and inconveniences of this drive that I believe could be corrected by a good quality VFD conversion.

What I mean is, at the high end of the speed range the Reeves drive does produce vibration and noise from the pulleys and belts. Additionally, braking with the motor brake is a less than elegant system for what is a very elegant lathe. A VFD would improve both of these in performance and smoothness.

One other annoying feature of the this drive is if you are in the low end range of the direct drive – say 1,000 RPM – and your next operation requires you to go to the high end of the back gear where you need close to 400 RPM, this requires you to accelerate the drive all the way to get to this range. Then if the next operation requires you to go back to 1,000 RPM, you must decelerate all the way back down. This can become annoying and time consuming on the Rivett but would be a very simple and quick operation with a VFD.

And the last observation I would make is when the machine is running at high RPM, especially with a 6” forged chuck installed, accelerating from zero to 2,500 to 3,000 RPM is a lot to ask of the clutch when the drive is running or the motor when the drive is not. With a VFD this would be a smooth and simple maneuver.

Your point about my VFD being a high-end conversion is noted. And, yes, all VFD’s and conversions are not created equal.

 

[beckerkumm]

Thanks for the update. I see the PITA part of the drive needing to go back and forth. The Matrix two speed clutch on my lathe works well with the vfd and back gear is seldom used. The good is that the clutch feathers in so the speed changes aren't too abrupt. The friction plates do stick a tad so the clutch doesn't stop the spindle completely but setting it for less friction also causes slipping under a heavier cut. Scratching up the plates might cure that but right now that is a project way down the road. Dave

 

[tailstock4]

Thanks for the update. I see the PITA part of the drive needing to go back and forth. The Matrix two speed clutch on my lathe works well with the vfd and back gear is seldom used. The good is that the clutch feathers in so the speed changes aren't too abrupt. The friction plates do stick a tad so the clutch doesn't stop the spindle completely but setting it for less friction also causes slipping under a heavier cut. Scratching up the plates might cure that but right now that is a project way down the road. Dave

Actually, I found the sticking of the clutch plates and performance in general of the clutch can be greatly improved by cleaning the whole clutch pack with kerosene and a parts brush. Just put a pan under the clutch assembly. This should eliminate sticking. This cleaning and greasing are part of the general maintenance of the drive.

 

[220swift]

A great pictures of some of the finest machines every made in the U.S. of A.

Hal

 

[beckerkumm]

Actually, I found the sticking of the clutch plates and performance in general of the clutch can be greatly improved by cleaning the whole clutch pack with kerosene and a parts brush. Just put a pan under the clutch assembly. This should eliminate sticking. This cleaning and greasing are part of the general maintenance of the drive.

Clutch plates were cleaned and sit in oil, DTE light. Dave

 

[jreiland]

Guys,
I started to go through the parts again last night trying to get an idea of what I had. I'm not really sure where to start, my thought is to pull the motor tray and start with the assembly there. Moving to the head stock and carriage etc. This post is also my way of showing off some of the goodies that came with the sale. Enjoy!

 

[jreiland]

 

[beckerkumm]

Can you tell what model and brand the clutch is? Is the bronze fork ( I think they call it a glut ) still there? Dave

 

[zamboni2354]

I'd pull the motor tray, repaint or finish painting the main casting, complete the motor tray and slide it in and work my way up. After the motor tray is in I'd send the little roller things he made to slide it in and out to me so I could use it when I pull my motor tray =).

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[zamboni2354]

Can you tell what model and brand the clutch is? Is the bronze fork ( I think they call it a glut ) still there? Dave

If you're talking about the open belt/back gear dual clutch thing....it's Carlyle Johnson.

Jeff

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[Cal Haines]

View attachment 344815

Are the collets stamped "Rivett"?

Cal

 

[beckerkumm]

Did the Rivett have a two speed clutch and another back gear in addition to the Reeves drive? I need to read up on that. Dave

Did some reading and if I have it right, the Rivett is sort of a cross between the Mk1 and Mk2 Smart Brown 1024. Heavier and maybe the best of both. Two speed clutch with 6-1 reduction vs 4-1 on the S and B and a 12-1 back gear vs the 8-1 on the S and B. I now understand why the Reeves could be removed and substituted with a vector motor although the 6-1 is a little too much reduction and leaves a hole in the 500-1000 range. A 7.5 hp motor would help that. The top end of 4000 rpm is easily doable though. Dave

 

[tailstock4]

Did the Rivett have a two speed clutch and another back gear in addition to the Reeves drive? I need to read up on that. Dave

Did some reading and if I have it right, the Rivett is sort of a cross between the Mk1 and Mk2 Smart Brown 1024. Heavier and maybe the best of both. Two speed clutch with 6-1 reduction vs 4-1 on the S and B and a 12-1 back gear vs the 8-1 on the S and B. I now understand why the Reeves could be removed and substituted with a vector motor although the 6-1 is a little too much reduction and leaves a hole in the 500-1000 range. A 7.5 hp motor would help that. The top end of 4000 rpm is easily doable though. Dave

I realized after you posted on the sticky clutch that you were talking about your Smart & Brown lathe. Sorry about that.

The Rivett has two clutches – one for direct drive, and one for back gear. It has a high and low range. I never use the lowest range. The Rivett has a little more of a gear head feel because both of the back gear ranges are in the headstock as opposed to a 10EE which has back gears that power the headstock with belts. The trade off, of course, is vibration. Monarch went to the effort to isolate the feed gear from the spindles with a flat belt.

I wondered for a long time why Rivett used 40 weight oil in a high speed, precision head stock. I believe it was an attempt to cushion vibration from these gears which is somewhat effective. Even so with both machines having new bearings the 10EE will produce a slightly better finish all things being equal – in my opinion. But having a clutch headstock has advantages at times.

 

[beckerkumm]

I wonder how the CVA fits in. Belt to the Monarch designed spindle with a gearbox between the belt and the motor. Finish quality on my S and B is hard to judge in comparison because my bearings have a little wear but not enough for me to tackle the project. My CVA will be here in a month or two so I will get some idea how it stands up. Dave

 

[jreiland]

Are the collets stamped "Rivett"?

Cal

They are. I have 20 or so spares that I'll post for sale when I'm organized.