Roughing, Climb only or both ways?

[wesg]

Yes BUE = built up edge. Oops late on the draw.

Oh, I thought it stood for "Buggering Up Endmills".

That's how it always seemed to me.

;-)

 

[crossthread82]

What kind of tool life are you getting out of end mills running similar parameters as mine? I get about 10-12 hours with my conservative parameters, and the tools break near the holder face on the shank above the flutes. Called Helical about this and they said 10hours is considered good life for my parameters.

That sucks IMO for cutting aluminum. I have a GWS 1010 and one of their newer ASR-5's both 1/2 DLC coated that have a couple thousand hours on them cutting 6061 and still running strong.

ASR-5 is a 5 flute chip-splitter type 1-1/2loc but you could probably custom order with 1-3/4loc. I run mine full depth 10% stepover 650ipm. 1010 I run 1.125 axial 40% 400ipm.

What kind of holder do you have it in?

 

[DSMWerks]

I looked that one up. It does look promising. With HSM methods the chip thinning will allow 5 flute to do well for sure. Where do you buy the ASR-5? Directly from them? Can't find a seller or price anywhere.
Edit, I found them same place I get YG1, Suncoast but do not see the coated version

 

[crossthread82]

I looked that one up. It does look promising. With HSM methods the chip thinning will allow 5 flute to do well for sure. Where do you buy the ASR-5? Directly from them? Can't find a seller or price anywhere.
Edit, I found them same place I get YG1, Suncoast but do not see the coated version

The DLC coating is a special order item, I get mine from Chesapeake Distributing. Last I ordered 1/2 coated (150206) was $112

Edit- Uncoated standard list price from gws is $90, they list pricing on their website.

 

[Chips Everywhere]

That sucks IMO for cutting aluminum. I have a GWS 1010 and one of their newer ASR-5's both 1/2 DLC coated that have a couple thousand hours on them cutting 6061 and still running strong.

ASR-5 is a 5 flute chip-splitter type 1-1/2loc but you could probably custom order with 1-3/4loc. I run mine full depth 10% stepover 650ipm. 1010 I run 1.125 axial 40% 400ipm.

What kind of holder do you have it in?

SK16 Holder. I had it in a milling chuck too and broke in the same spot, roughly about the same amount of time. In case it may be a concern, I have not experienced any pull out with either holder.

I've been curious about the 5 flute roughers for aluminium. I'll grab a few to test them out.

 

[DSMWerks]

I ordered two of the ASR-5 1/2" uncoated from Suncoast for $59 each. with a corner radius they are $112 and I can put one on with my tool and cutter grinder so uncoated made sense. I will try them at 10% step over and 650 ipm as suggested by crossthread82

 

[kineticmx]

Question for y'all, in a roughing application does the corner radius increase tool life, performance, or both? I use the yg alupower with a sharp corner for all my roughing and finishing. I guess I am trying to determine if I were to implement a dedicated roughing tool would it be best to have a corner rad? ( I guess I would ask this about both aluminum and steel.) I have never gone out of my way to buy anything with a corner radius unless the part required a radius at the floor, maybe this is wrong?

 

[Mr.M]

We use a .03 CR on our 1/2" roughing tools as it does help with the tool life. We would use more stepover for sure. I also found that the MA Ford corncob style roughers outperform most others we tested. They reduce load on the machine and make the swarf more compact as added benefits.

 

[Mtndew]

Question for y'all, in a roughing application does the corner radius increase tool life

In steels, absolutely.
In aluminum, I would have to say yes as well but not as much as it would in steels.

 

[crossthread82]

Question for y'all, in a roughing application does the corner radius increase tool life, performance, or both? I use the yg alupower with a sharp corner for all my roughing and finishing. I guess I am trying to determine if I were to implement a dedicated roughing tool would it be best to have a corner rad? ( I guess I would ask this about both aluminum and steel.) I have never gone out of my way to buy anything with a corner radius unless the part required a radius at the floor, maybe this is wrong?

For a roughing only tool you pretty much always want a corner radius. The radius is much stronger and chip resistant than a square corner. Some roughers even come with chamfered corners.

 

[Chips Everywhere]

Well, the end mill I was using only lasted about 1hr @ 340imp, 0.1 radial x 1.75 axial before it snapped at the holder.

 

[DSMWerks]

I have the GWS 5 flute running. Only going with climb cutting. My material is 2" x 6" x 16" long and on a 4th axis with a tail stock. I needed a little clearance so the shrink fit holder has 3.5" projection and end mill is 2.125" out of holder. Running 10K rpm 400 ipm .100" step over and .800" deep. Sounds good and chips looks great. Now just to see how long it last's.

 

[DSMWerks]

Well I guess I need to work on it. Made it 20 minutes before loading up. I think its a problem with to much material for the 5 flute to evacuate. Maybe .05 step over or slower feed?

 

[Finegrain]

Well I guess I need to work on it. Made it 20 minutes before loading up. I think its a problem with to much material for the 5 flute to evacuate.

Yes, I should think so. Not much space in the flutes with a 5-flute, especially when you are really getting after it. Tool clogging or not might come down to the power and placement of your coolant flow.

Regards.

Mike

 

[crossthread82]

Well I guess I need to work on it. Made it 20 minutes before loading up. I think its a problem with to much material for the 5 flute to evacuate. Maybe .05 step over or slower feed?

Coolant is everything with the alumigator series from GWS. That's the primary reason why I order them dlc coated...no chip welding. If it runs dry at all it will weld.

I usually run mine around 10-12% radial so 0.050", usually deeper though around 1.25"

 

[BT Fabrication]

It’s a VF2SS, so it’s ok rapids.

I don’t understand your second question or statement, are you implying that it’s conservative engagement or too much?

yes, my typical step over on aluminum is about 150 thou on full depth on a 1' endmill dlc coated walter 1/2" at 8k rpms.

 

[DSMWerks]

Well I can't get any more coolant on it. 3 lines flushing away from the part and the it loaded up not during the pocket with walls around it and the chips needed to be flushed out, it loaded up with the 3 lines blasting on it and no floor below it and a side cut so the chip flushed away. They were piled up more than 3 feet away in the back left corner. Only way I can get more coolant might be if I use the wash down hose on a mag base mounted on the spindle. I'd like to stay away from coated for two reasons. Another shop had the job and used coated endmills and had chatter and the part warped .012" over 16". The part ends up .180" thick and aerofoil in shaped. I think they were inducing stress. I've never seen a coated end mill as sharp as the same brand uncoated. I do these with YG1 Alu-Power and got no chatter and flat with in .001". But not at 400 ipm, only 200 ipm with a 3 flute. But like the fine print says "your results may vary"

 

[crossthread82]

Well I can't get any more coolant on it. 3 lines flushing away from the part and the it loaded up not during the pocket with walls around it and the chips needed to be flushed out, it loaded up with the 3 lines blasting on it and no floor below it and a side cut so the chip flushed away. They were piled up more than 3 feet away in the back left corner. Only way I can get more coolant might be if I use the wash down hose on a mag base mounted on the spindle. I'd like to stay away from coated for two reasons. Another shop had the job and used coated endmills and had chatter and the part warped .012" over 16". The part ends up .180" thick and aerofoil in shaped. I think they were inducing stress. I've never seen a coated end mill as sharp as the same brand uncoated. I do these with YG1 Alu-Power and got no chatter and flat with in .001". But not at 400 ipm, only 200 ipm with a 3 flute. But like the fine print says "your results may vary"

Hard to judge from pictures but your coolant seems a bit watery, have you checked the concentration or tried up-ing the %? I run my fuchs ecocool 7830 at 12%, granted I also run my tools with tsc with a coolant flush collet. The dlc coated tools start off not quite as sharp as a bare tool but after being run for a bit they tend to hone a bit and seem about as sharp as the uncoated, YMMV but that's my observation.

As an aside could you rough the part with a shell mill like an axd4000? Was the other shop that was running into warp running the parts in a rotary like you are or were they doing a top bottom approach in a vise? The later approach I would assume would be introducing a lot of the stress.

Not to be a GWS shill but you can get them to make a necked version of their 3flt 1010 series. I don't think there's enough shank to neck a standard tool yourself. A 1/2 non necked 1010 I run at 2xd axial and 40% radial 12.5k 400ipm. But those are only 1.25" loc which doesn't look like enough for your application.

 

[DSMWerks]

My coolant has been creeping up to 15%. It was my old employer I got the job from and they gave me their program. I altered it to my liking. They were using the 4th axis and a shell mill to rough it but on a $300K DMG. My programing on a 12 yr old Hass kicked their ass I'll try to look for the 3 flute 1010 that fits my needs. Doing passes at .800" deep so will see what is available.

 

[Machinerer]

My coolant has been creeping up to 15%. It was my old employer I got the job from and they gave me their program. I altered it to my liking. They were using the 4th axis and a shell mill to rough it but on a $300K DMG. My programing on a 12 yr old Hass kicked their ass I'll try to look for the 3 flute 1010 that fits my needs. Doing passes at .800" deep so will see what is available.

Not sure what's available as far as sizes, and I have nothing against the GWS endmills recommended by @crossthread82 but I've been using quite a bit of Garr's new A3 endmills. They don't offer them in coated, but they have a very high polished finish, and I haven't noticed any BUE. Check them out.