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Round dial ELSR housing drawing

dinotom

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
I am about to reassemble my ELSR housing on my 1944 round dial. Upon inspection of the parts diagram in my manual, there are a LOT of small parts, most of which I do not see in my bag of parts from that dis-assembly. I bought another one from Ebay and also do not see a lot of the small springs, etc. I am contemplating sending all the parts back to Monarch to reassemble, but before I do was wondering if somewhere within this forum there is a drawing for how to reassemble this? My searching did not turn up anything.

The diagram is E-14 and the housing basically takes all the parts at the bottom half of the diagram picture.
 
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Cal Haines

Diamond
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Location
Tucson, AZ
As I've told you several times before, I don't think that you're missing anything (assuming that you haven't lost any parts). What you're missing is an understanding of how this switch works. I have tried several times to explain it to you:

Restoration of Monarch 10EE Serial#26080 Delivered on 11/2/1944 to Buick

10EE wiring Start-Stop switch bypassing ESLR

Your problem is that you have two basic misunderstandings. First, you think that there should be neutral switch that keeps the MG from starting unless the spindle control is stopped; there is NO NEUTRAL SWITCH, period (as explained in the second link). Second, you believe that the switch on the top of the headstock tombstone is intended to control the spindle; it is NOT, period.

I very much doubt that anyone working at Monarch today has ever worked on a round-dial 10EE, let alone the fairly rare round-dial ELSR option. You will end up paying them a lot of money to reassemble the unit when there are people here that will help you with that free of charge. All you have to do is listen to them.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but we have gone round and round on issue this several times. If you'll just set aside your preconceived ideas, we can get this thing working as designed.

Cal
 

thermite

Diamond
I am about to reassemble my ELSR housing on my 1944 round dial. Upon inspection of the parts diagram in my manual, there are a LOT of small parts, most of which I do not see in my bag of parts from that dis-assembly. I bought another one from Ebay and also do not see a lot of the small springs, etc. I am contemplating sending all the parts back to Monarch to reassemble, but before I do was wondering if somewhere within this forum there is a drawing for how to reassemble this? My searching did not turn up anything.

The diagram is E-14 and the housing basically takes all the parts at the bottom half of the diagram picture.

My 1944 Round Dial has that early-version "high rod" ELSR.

If the Wizards of Sidney found a way to simplify it for the same or better effect AFTER that drawing was made? As they assuredly DID do, and "bigtime", when they later moved away from that nuisance - and vulnerable - rod position?

Good on 'em!

It's what Production Engineering folk are employed to do ... so as to reduce field-failures and warranty expense, manufacture any given product faster, reduce exposure to production errors, and become more economical to get out the door as they gain experience.

Original Design Engineers are not foolish nor inexperienced. They simply do not yet HAVE field feedback NOR even production-line feedback as-at Big Bang Day.

What was your one failing to do before you took it all apart?
Why d'you suppose the eBay sourced one had no "missing" parts EITHER?

If it wasn't broken, don't insist on "fixing" it .... lest you un-do the advantage gained off proven revisions to simplify it.

That simple. Keep it so. Redundancy intended. Of the message. Not of the R&D learning-curve.
 

dinotom

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Thank you for the responses.
Cal, I understand you loud and clear. I don’t have any preconceived notions about how the ELSR works, I defer to you all who know way more than I do about these things. What I do know, and was correct, was that the mechanism itself was not functioning properly from a mechanical point of view. I proved that when I took the top of it off and found the segment gear had three of its teeth shorn off. You can see Keith Rucker making me new segment gears (have a few spares now) on YouTube, just search for Monarch 10EE lathe segment gear. It’s a 4 part video series.

The point of asking for the diagram is simple; (and that is all I asked in the original post, if there was, in fact, any drawings within the forum) in the manual there are many parts, mostly springs listed there. Neither my original nor the unit I bought from EBay had any springs at all. (That unit came fully dis-assembled unfortunately)
They are obviously in Monarchs parts diagram for a reason, they are part of its functional design. Knowing where they belong would be an integral part of its rebuild. If I saw an exploded drawing of it I could easily figure out how to reassemble.

Again, all I was/am asking is; Is there an exploded view drawing of the round dial ELSR unit?
 

Cal Haines

Diamond
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Location
Tucson, AZ
There are very few round-dial assembly drawing floating around and I am not aware one for the ELSR. As far as I know, Monarch didn't prepare exploded drawings of anything. The closest thing to that are the square-dial parts drawings.

Cal
 

Peter.

Titanium
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Location
England UK
In the drawing:

Spring 7 is the holding spring under screw 5 that keep dial 6 held in. You pull in the dial against the spring to select left and right direction for the leadscrew.
Spring 9 holds in the detent for the stop-rod 17
Spring 14 is obviously the detent spring for rod 16
Spring 28 holds in the friction pin 29 for the interlock plunger 37 that pokes out the front of the housing and prevents accidental operation of the fwd/rev control.
Spring 35 is the detent spring for the square cams 30 and 31
Spring 24 is the detent spring for the top lever 27

If you had none of thses springs, then electrically the mechanism would still work. The controls would just not positively locate in their positions.
 

dinotom

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Thank you, Peter. That is very helpful information. Once I begin reassembly, I am going to document it fully and try to have an exploded view drawing made up.
 

thermite

Diamond
Completely useless suggestion.

Not entirely.

"Final straw" to convince ME to leave the one on my '42 Round Dial TF alone and NOT even take it apart to clean and lube it.

It ain't broke.

Why would I want to break it just to volunteer for all that work over a gadget I don't even need, anyway?

Never DID thread TOWARDS an obstruction nor down INTO a blind hole.

The "reverse" rather.

Gave a body six to eleven feed of bed to finish that Camel cigarette then go and rapid back to set-up for the next pass.

One didn't stop a(ny) large lathe on a dime anyway.


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