Saving American Manufacturing

[L Webb]

I was looking through the latest issue of Tooling and Production and saw an article about this website, Save American Manufacturing.
http://www.samnow.org/

The website isn't laid out the best, but has some good info. I read that this group was started by some mold-making companies.
There are some interesting links on the Links page.

I also found it interesting that the supposed legislators for manufacturing list shows three times as many Democrats as Republicans. Two of the congresswomen on the list from my area, are a couple of the biggest liberals around and are always trying to take my wallet to give to the less fortunate.

Check it out if you have time.

Les

 

[JimK]

Tried to got to the site but it was in a format that my litte Web TV can't use.

As for Democrats, It is about time they found out that their voting base (The Working Class) actually Work and that many of them actually work in Factories.

Mr Clinton spent eight years in office trying to look like a "New Democrat" (conservative) and he shafted his own party's constituency.

Mr Gore stood for election and lost West Virginia and Tennessee through the Democratic Party's own bungling, especially the bungling of the Gun Control issue.

It seems that the Democratic leaders have forgotten that they are voted into office by Factory Workers.

Many factory workers own guns and hunt. Most, if not all factory workers want to keep working at their factory.

This is simple stuff that modern Democrats just can't seem to understand.

Republicans want to make money.

That is what They Do.

The only reason they soil their Wingtips walking the Halls of Congress is to make sure that no opportunity to make money is lost.

Since they don't want to pay the social cost of American Factory Labor, they simply legislate protective tariffs away in the name of free trade.

Since they don't want to pay taxes on the income they derive from the world's most lucritive market, they make it easy for American Corporations to avoid taxation wherever and whenever possible.

Now, every red blooded, gun toting, flag waving American is voting for the Republicans because G.W. Bush put on a Good Show and kicked some ass that needed kicking in the Middle East.

But

Most of the Dumb Boobs don't know that it is THEIR ass that is gonna get kicked next.

The Only ways to "Save" American manufacturing are:

Tariff the Dog-Doots out of the cheap goods that are coming into the country by The Boatload.

Let it be known that American Workers are going to have to Work and not go running to some Government Agency or Lawyer every time they get their snotty noses out of joint.

Let EVERYBODY know that when they want The Government to Spend Money that they are going to get the Bill for that Spending and it will be due on April 15th.

Chances of any of The Above happening:

Slim to none.

Chances of most of us stepping in the Dog Doots we should have tariffed out of cheap imports:

Way too good.

American manufacturing is not going to be "saved". All the politicians and most of the bureaucrats in Washington, D.C. have one eye on the Exit.

Their plans are to save themselves. When things start to get dicey, they are all ready to bug out.

Only the extremists and the "heroes" with fire in their bellies are heading into D.C.

Notice the swiftness with which The Department of Homeland Security was formed.

Notice the fanaticism of Mr. Ashcroft. Few Muslims are as "Devout" in their religeon as Mr. Ashcroft is in his.

Notice the constant push for extra constitutional powers allowed the government.

Osama Bin Laden is Finished. Al Qada has been reduced to an annoyance, yet the Dept. of Homeland Security is still getting up steam.

Why?

 

[Mr Bridgeport]

Hey, Billy Clinton passed the free trade agreement with China in the middle of the night. It was the Dems that screwed us all. Look at your history book. Now who is gonna bring us back?

 

[JimK]

Mr. Bridgeport:

You may remember that Mr. "Tricky Dick" Nixon paved the way for trade with Red China. We all know what political party he belonged to.

This is in no way a defense of Mr. "Slick Willlie" Clinton.

It just shows that people with enough money to buy politicians have been working the Cheap Oriental Labor Plan for quite some time.

 

[mattei]

JimK,

You really have no idea what you are talking about.....

Why don't you ask everyone how they feel about the tariff on steel that Mr. Bush did for you........

It's much more complicated than you describe it.....

I'll go into details if you so desire, but you need to worry about what you can do, not blame others.......

 

[JimK]

Mattel:

Telling me I have no idea of what I am talking about is too open ended.

I will address any of the details you wish the best I can.

Anything that is complicated got that way because a collection of simple things got added together.

A simple thing like a tariff on a single product like steel won't un tangle a complicated thing like a lack of a comprehensive tariff policy.

A simple statement like "Free Trade" doesn't seem to un tangle the complex differences in trading policies that our country has between the European nations and the Asian natons.

All of that complexity has been built up over the years, one simple step at a time.

It All is now an horrendous ball of wax. The question is can we un do it in time to "Save" American manufactring. Maybe not, because there are many people who don't want to undo it.

 

[x39]

As I see it, the problem with industry in the US is that our own government makes it impossible for us to run profitable businesses. Every facet of US industry is regulated to the point of absurdity with safety, environmental, labor, and trade laws. Insofar as the political parties, I have one question for any political candidate: "If elected to office, name three laws you will work to repeal.". Any candidate that can give me a straight answer to that question will probably get my vote.

 

[Tumbleweed Tim]

If Sikorsky gets this contract our President will be flying on an Asian chopper, and our tax dollers will pay for some out of country labor, were as if they buy the British birds more will end up here. Sikorsky will be 100% American if the contract says so, but United Tecnologies will be forced to off load more work to keep up the profit, and will do so on just about every thing they can get away with.
"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Navy plans to kick off bidding for a new $1.6 billion fleet of presidential helicopters this fall, and the main competitors are already battling about whose helicopter is more American.

The current fleet of 11 Marine One, or VH-3D, helicopters was built by Sikorksy Aircraft, a division of United Technologies Corp., and the company is determined to remain the top supplier with its twin-engine S-92 helicopter.

But a British-Italian team last month joined Textron Inc.'s Bell Helicopter unit, whose predecessor built the first helicopter to take off from the White House lawn in 1957, and the group is now underscoring its American connections.

AgustaWestland, owned by Britain's GKN and Finmeccanica of Italy, has formed a venture with Bell, based in Fort Worth, Texas to build the three-engined "US101" helicopter in the United States.

Whoever wins the bidding war will be a subcontractor to the previously announced prime contractor, Lockheed Martin Corp., which will have overall responsibility for the program and delivery of presidential choppers.

Supporters of the Sikorsky bid highlight the company's historical role while dismissing the US101 bid, a derivative of AgustaWestland's EH-101 helicopter, as "foreign."

But Lockheed Martin and its partners issued a news release on Tuesday saying its helicopters would include at least 65 percent U.S. content, while most of Sikorsky's helicopter would be produced outside the United States.

"The fact that major components of the S-92 come from China, Taiwan, Japan, Brazil and Spain should eliminate from the discussion the erroneous assertions that the S-92 is an 'American' helicopter and the US101 is a 'foreign' helicopter," Steve Ramsey, vice president for Lockheed Martin Systems Integration -- Oswego, said in a statement."

Funny that Locheed has to be the prime, you would think they would let the companies that supply the fleet with Helicopters do that, but some one sees some value going to a middle man.
And we wonder why?
link to full artical: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2945189


[This message has been edited by Tumbleweed Tim (edited 06-24-2003).]

 

[ztarum]

In this case Lockheed is the systems integrator. Often times with complex systems such as aircraft there is much more to it than the airframe. The debate here is about who will supply the airframe, but Lockheed will probably add various sensors and systems which the airframe manufacturers do not have the ability to produce. Many of these subsystems will be contracted out to subs as well. I expect that as the prime Lockheed will also operate and maintain the helicopters, and in doing such they are assuming risk that that the airframe manufactures are not, hence the value added.

This is the way many military contracts are going, especially with complex projects. The prime acts as a project manager/systems integrator and brings together all the subs to produce a end product that most companies whose experties is in a certain area could not produce on there own.

[This message has been edited by ztarum (edited 06-24-2003).]

 

[J. Elliott]

Fellas,

As JimK mentioned a few weeks back, the worst thing coming down the pike for us all is the exploding deficit. There is NO WAY to have lower tax bills by borrowing money to cover operating expenses. The GOP has engineered some whopping tax cuts that WON'T be reflected in dollar-for-dollar spending cuts. Never.

It is in the nature of the way our government is set up. Congress is essentially the place where each state's representatives get in there and scape away at the trough, trying to bring home the most bacon for his district. The magnitude of the cuts in services needed to balance the forthwith budgets under our 'new-and-improved' revenue structure would mean outright forclosures of entire government subsidiaries in countless districts around the country. Can anyone here imagine, with a straight face, such bloodletting actually taking place? It'll be the ol' base closing scenario writ large, and without any ground rules to determine who should make the sacrifices. There is NO CHANCE this will ever happen. None. And all I'm talking about is politicians having to go home and tell folks that the government cash cows in their districts are shuttering. Factor in the actual pain and suffering that will result in such a dismantling and then you've got the populace howling too.

The problem here is simple - Americans will NEVER stand for the wholesale reductions in services called for under this new tax structure. Therefore, the deficit will balloon, heaping long-term trouble upon us all. It is an aggregious act of irresponsibility to pass the tax cuts first and then hope against hope for spending cuts to follow, without preparing the public in the least for what this new tax package will mean to us all.

If Bush and the GOP were to address the future they've set up for us, the only thing you could count on is that they'd lie like rugs to obfuscate and deliberately misinform. Just like this damn war, which is still killing American citizens each week.

The GOP has shot us straight in the head this time. I hope all of you reading this forum like the idea of giant tax bills to eternity to pay for spending of ten, twenty years gone by. Servicing the debt already accounts for about an extra 20% added into your tax bill. Hey, how about 35%? Thousands of dollars each year, for nothing. And then, passed on to people not yet born to struggle with too. Screwing babies sure makes me feel patriotic.

This lunatic we have in the White House sees no problem with any of it. He is clearly on record as saying deficit spending is OK. I mean hell, when he came into office we had EXTRA money to reduce the damn deficit! All he cares about is cutting taxes and being re-elected, even if it means setting up the country for disaster and killing Americans for poorly conceived and unnecessary war.

This bum is going to go down as the worst president in memory. He plays to the mob, which will love him as long as he waves a Bible around, struts around, and talks about pie-in-the-sky nonsense like giant tax cuts for everybody. And that great bastion of common sense, the American public? They don't even know....

 

[WILLEO6709]

The idea of the tax cut is to get more money in the hands of consumers so more money gets spent and more people either get jobs they now don't have or more income from sales commission, etc. Now the challenge is if only sales commissions get distributed in the US and the manufacturing profit goes to a foreign company, you may be right, the tax cut can't help. The premise is the more money in circulation will stimulate the economy and create more tax money , effectively balancing out. It takes more than the president to cut taxes, if you are unhappy and wish to donate more than your required share to the government I am sure they will take all you are offering. In the mean time, complain to your senator and representative.
Back to the topic, SAMNOW wants to save american manufacturing. I'd like to see that too. for every dollar I spend I want someone in the states paying income tax on that money. The only way that happens if all materials, labor and manufacturing occurs in the states. Just think of the tax that would be generated if all the crap we import from china was made in the us...... we could reduce rates another 5% and still be ahead.

 

[L Webb]

I am ready to accept some wholesale cuts by the government. Here is a start:
Welfare
Foreign Aid
Ridiculous various subsidies
Congressional perks and retirement packages
Various grants for such things as art and research programs that are meaningless

Feel free to add to this list.

Bush has a long way to go to be the worst president ever. It will take some doing to match Jimmy Carter's great record.

Les

 

[WILLEO6709]

-disaster relief
-"hope the government does not subsuduze machining - look what it did to farming"
-requirements of american manufacture % in gsa contracts
- incentives for american manufacturing companies at tax time
- put an end to insurance fraud(all insurance is fraud.....), many companies can't afford liability insurance to manufacture in the us anymore
- start convincing the american people that social programs really don't create many good paying jobs......

 

[JimK]

I notice that there are people posting from California.

This Morning's Postie has an article stating that The State of California is 38 Billion Dollars short and that the State won't be able to write checks after August.

If you are posting on this Board, you either ARE or WERE in Manufacturing.

What is Plan "B" after your State turns Inside Out?

You just Know that the Fix is going to involve Taxes Au Go Go.

They can't tax the Blond Boys lying on The Beach.

Who they gonna call??

U

Looks like Feets, Don't Fail Me time.

Might even have to do The Detroit Shuffle. That is the one where ya just let the Old Iron sit right there while you BOOK!

There are over 40,000 signatures on a petition to recall Gov. Gray Davis.

Maybe Roger Rabbit can get on the Ballot. He has Connections in the State's biggest industry.

He would appoint Scrooge Mc Duck as State Treasurer, That would clear up the financial problems.

The state's crime rate would drop dramatically after The Tasmanian Devil was appointed as State's Attorney General.

Bugs Bunny would be masterful in his conduct as head of the State's various agencies dealing with the health care industry. When HE asks "What's Up, Doc?" THEY would have to tell him!

Yes, it is time once again, for Hollywood's film stars to rise to the occasion.

The State that sent Ronald Reagan and Sunny Bono to Washington, D.C. need only seek within its own borders for the kind of Character that is needed now in its Dire Straits.

 

[SIP6A]

As long as were cutting government spending why don't we cut corporate welfare?

 

[Greg B]

The state can't write checks after midnight tonight if they don't pass a balanced budget as required by Calfornia's state constitution. And by the way, as of this weekend, there are over one million signatures on the petition recall Davis. Of course there is some shuckin' and jivin' going on by the CA secretary of state to try and delay the registars from counting and verifying the signatures. Thereby attempting to stop the recall from going on the November ballot.
Greg B.

[This message has been edited by Greg B (edited 06-30-2003).]

 

[JimK]

Oh, My!

One Million Signatories!

Roger has a chance!

Y'all are welcome out here in West By Gosh Virginia.

We got Water

and

We got Electricity, including that fancy Three Phase kind.

We even got Gun Control - We're always in the "X" ring at 100 yards.

Every year, Venison and Turkey are on sale. Hmmmm. Last year turkey cost 1 20 ga. shell and young Jimmy Bennett brought back enough meat to feed us for months after he lit out of here with my Browning Lever Action, Cal. 308. - Yeppers, 1 shell, one Whitetail

The only Regulator I've seen in the last seven years is the one on the Propane Tanks out back.

As long as Big Byrd is in The Senate, we'll have good roads.

A two hour's drive will take you to where God sat when he made the rest of the world.

Why do you think we refer to ths place as "Almost Heaven?"

6 lathes
A few Mills
An outdated Jig Borer
An Old Dawg
1 Ford Pickup
A dozen or so assorted Guns
2 cats
And a couple of orphaned printng presses.

Geeeezzzz.

What more does a guy need?

I grew up in Upstate New York, I will always have a warm spot in my heart for New Yrok City. I spent years and years in Washington, D.C.

Then one day, I realized that Sado - Machochism wasn't really my "kink".

I looked down and found that I had two good Feets and ralized that I didn't have to stand still for My Daily Beating.

Guys, That is what I meant when I said it's Feets, Don't Fail Me Time.

Or is it that as an East Coast Man, I don't have any idea of just how Kinky California is.

Sheeeeesh!

 

[L Webb]

We are still here, hanging in there despite Gov. Lowbeam Davis's best efforts to drive us away.

During his re-election bid last year, Davis stated the deficit was maybe 10-12 billion dollars, no more.
After he was re-elected, he admitted the deficit was 34 billion dollars.
We don't need this ignorant lying a**hole in office any longer!
That is why we are 100% behind the recall and are also gathering signatures on petitions against the illegal tax hikes such as tripling our vehicle license fees.
We aren't sitting back just hoping for the best. We are doing our best to be heard.

Davis also doesn't want to cut any of the 30,000 state employees that he added in the last 4 years. He is cutting other state employees like the Highway Patrol and prison guards instead.

Our Worker's Comp rate has increased 140% this year alone. That is with one $750 claim in the last 10 years.
They are working on new gross percentage taxes on all manufacturing also.
It is enough to drive a person to drink, except we won't be able to afford that either with the proposed new sin taxes.

Moving the company out of this state is not an option. Many of our customers are within a 1 hour drive of us.
Our only advantage is that we own the property, building, and everything in it. We don't owe a dime on anything, and intend to keep it that way.
The man who built this building and business by hand starting in 1947 managed to do a pretty good job through rough times himself. Before he passed away, he often said to never reach into your own pocket to keep the business going. He felt it is much better to line your pockets and walk away and go do something else.

We are sitting in an OK position right now. We are exploring our options and deciding on a path to take. I feel that whoever survives the next couple of years doing business in this state will be in a pretty good position if things improve.

Just about anybody else in the governor's office would be better than Davis. I am a little leery of Arnold S. as he would surely want a ton of social programs that would hit our wallet hard.

It's not going to be easy the next couple of years here in Calif. Hopefully we can remain here in our niche and continue to crank out quality parts for our great customers here and across the country.

I also just heard that the first checks to be withheld by the state if no budget by midnight, are the legislators paychecks.

Les

 

[JimGlass]

I think there is another issue affecting manufacturing and the economy in general.

"Health Care"

This is another time bomb waiting to go off.
Fewer and fewer people and companys can afford health care premiums. This is a tremendous burden on companys.

Before 2001 I thought I was going to have paid health care after retirement. A big, big benefit. Well guess what?? No more, The wife and I will be buying it now.

Someone has got to get the lawyers out of health care. They seem to swarm around health care issues like flies on cow manure.
I guess this is because the insurance companys pay the law suits instead of individuals. The individuals pay for all the law suits down the road. So, now we are paying.

How does Canada do national health care anyway?? Would a lawyer then sue the government for a malpractice claim??

My wife thinks a Federal health care system is in our future. The Fed's have already attacked tobacco and alcohol. Sounds like taxes on junk food is in their gun sights next. Sorta forcing people to live healthier lives.

Jim


[This message has been edited by JimGlass (edited 06-30-2003).]

 

[JimK]

Jim Glass has a very good point.

It wasn't the government that got us into this jam however.

It was the big corporations who steadily expanded their health insurance plans as a form of benefit.

These plans started out as "Sickness and Accident" plans - what we now call catastrophic coverage.

These can be rigged as insurance because there is a comparitiely slim chance that the average American worker will be overtaken by sickness or accident. (we all know people who got sick or who had accidents, I am statistically speaking here)

For the day to day stuff, we paid the doctor when we left his office and paid for our prescriptions right at the pharmacy's cash register. We were Square.

As the plans went toward comprehensive health care, the ability to rig them as an insurance became impossible.

Today's Health Insurance isn't insurance it is a pro rata payment scheme.

Statistically, the actuaries figure that you, as a statistical unit, will use "x" amount of health care at "y" amount of cost. You monthly payments will then be "z".

The more pepole using it, the bigger the scheme is and the bigger the pro rata payment is. That is because the Plan has to be Managed, and that means costly bureaucracy.

In reality it is socialized medicine run by private outfits. You pay according to your abilities, you take according to your needs. The Healthy haul The Sick.

This rig up can't be run for ever by private concerns because it eventually will require the taxing and distribution powers of the government.

In today's world the outcome is anybody's guess.

The only way Uncle Sam can do it without going any more bankrupt is for him to own all the clinics and hire all the doctors and nurses. True Socialized Medicine.

I am in favor of going back to the system of pay as you go doctor and prescription costs with true sickness and accident insurance for the bad stuff.

As I said in another post, I really get up a Head of Steam when I see some guy park his new Diesel Powered Pickup Truck that is big enough to haul for J.B.Hunt in the pharmacy parking lot and then proceed to pay for his 'scrip with The Medicare Card.

This ol' crap has got to stop!