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Shop owner question.

Joined
Apr 21, 2021
Question for shop owners. I am a new CNC job shop. Like many I started off with aluminum and soft steel. Now I am moving into SS like 304. My question is, got a job for 304 and I have to order tooling. Is it wrong to pass on the cost of tooling to the customer? It's just a couple of end mills designed for SS. I am worried that there might be a reasonable expectation for my customer to assume I have all tooling for his job. It should be noted that it's a large company feeling me out, and just purchasing the tooling for their small job puts me upside down unless I pass on the cost. Should I eat it in hopes of......?
 

Freedommachine

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 13, 2020
If it is consumable tooling such as end mills, drills or taps - yes, I would include them in the quoted price.

If it is indexable tooling or tool holders specific to the job? I would still add a percentage of the cost to this quote. It would depend on the general usefulness of the tooling for other work and the probability of repeat work from the customer.

Others may have different views on this though.
 

gbflyer

Plastic
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
If you gave them a quote to do the job, that is what they will expect to pay, depending on how your quote is worded. It’s always a good idea to list any and all exclusions. You’ll have to decide for yourself if it’s worth the potential pushback for a up-charge for a couple of consumables. As difficult as it is to get any work done today here in JB’s America, you’ll probably get away with it.

Opinion.
 

13engines

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Location
Saint Paul
If it's tooling or fixturing that I might have a use for in the future on other work, I'll charge them 60%.

Something that I buy for a job that I know will still be on the shelf when I die? They pay 100%.

If I'm certain to burn through a couple end mills on the job. Full charge for those too.

Ha... if you ever saw my year end balance sheet, you'd think I gave everything else away for free. :-)
 

DanASM

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
If I have a special tool for the job, I charge the customer a 1 time tool charge for life of the job. If it needs replacing it is on me after the fact.

Any tooling that is consumable or can be used on other jobs is factored into the hourly rate.

Carbide Endmills seem like it would fit under the "consumables" category. Can be used on a number of different jobs. Dont show the customer a tool charge for this, just add it into your hourly rate in the RFQ.
 

mhajicek

Titanium
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
If I have a special tool for the job, I charge the customer a 1 time tool charge for life of the job. If it needs replacing it is on me after the fact.

Any tooling that is consumable or can be used on other jobs is factored into the hourly rate.

Carbide Endmills seem like it would fit under the "consumables" category. Can be used on a number of different jobs. Dont show the customer a tool charge for this, just add it into your hourly rate in the RFQ.

If you're cutting aluminum or plastic, ok, maybe. Cutting steel, stainless, Ti, superalloys... The cutters are billed to the job; they WILL be consumed on a regular basis. They're either included in the quote (estimated consumption), or part of the time and materials charge.
 

triumph406

Titanium
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Location
ca
Question for shop owners. I am a new CNC job shop. Like many I started off with aluminum and soft steel. Now I am moving into SS like 304. My question is, got a job for 304 and I have to order tooling. Is it wrong to pass on the cost of tooling to the customer? It's just a couple of end mills designed for SS. I am worried that there might be a reasonable expectation for my customer to assume I have all tooling for his job. It should be noted that it's a large company feeling me out, and just purchasing the tooling for their small job puts me upside down unless I pass on the cost. Should I eat it in hopes of......?

If you try and pass on the cost of end mills to the customer he's going to question whether you know what your doing.

If I think I'm going to consume a lot of endmills on a job I'll roll it into the price for the job, but never show it as a seperate line item in a quote
 

mhajicek

Titanium
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
If you try and pass on the cost of end mills to the customer he's going to question whether you know what your doing.

If I think I'm going to consume a lot of endmills on a job I'll roll it into the price for the job, but never show it as a seperate line item in a quote

Well no, I wouldn't line item them. You figure it into the price per part. Part number X, qty Y, cost $$, that's all they need to see. But a 6 hour job that uses up $300 in cutters shouldn't have the same price per machine hour as a 6 hour job that used $50 in cutters.
 

Milland

Diamond
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Location
Hillsboro, New Hampshire
If you gave them a quote to do the job, that is what they will expect to pay, depending on how your quote is worded. It’s always a good idea to list any and all exclusions. You’ll have to decide for yourself if it’s worth the potential pushback for a up-charge for a couple of consumables. As difficult as it is to get any work done today here in JB’s America, you’ll probably get away with it.

Opinion.

Yeah, life's hard when you can't lie with impunity about losing an election or invite your brainless followers to invade the Capitol. Gosh, the horror! Next thing you know, government will start treating a pandemic as a medical emergency and not an inconvenience for you to ignore.

Facts.
 

BT Fabrication

Hot Rolled
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Question for shop owners. I am a new CNC job shop. Like many I started off with aluminum and soft steel. Now I am moving into SS like 304. My question is, got a job for 304 and I have to order tooling. Is it wrong to pass on the cost of tooling to the customer? It's just a couple of end mills designed for SS. I am worried that there might be a reasonable expectation for my customer to assume I have all tooling for his job. It should be noted that it's a large company feeling me out, and just purchasing the tooling for their small job puts me upside down unless I pass on the cost. Should I eat it in hopes of......?

why should you eat the cost to do the job? Customer wants it done, they pay for it.just like material.
 

DouglasJRizzo

Titanium
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Location
Ramsey, NJ.
The cost of correct tooling is always part of the job.
I had a customer that used to send part drawings specifying 110 Series copper for the parts. I needed the correct cutters to mill that, absolutely that was part of it.
 

doug925

Titanium
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Location
Houston
I used to include perishable tooling in my base shop rate. That encompassed basic endmills, drills, etc.
If the job will eat a lot of tooling, then I will apply 100% of the extra tooling in the quote.

Now, I quote 100% of projected tooling costs towards the per part price, assuming the job will wear tooling.
That is the only way we can keep track of our cost on the parts/ job.
(I DO NOT line item my quotes. The customer only sees the per part cost)

It is a PITA to have to guess at tooling without a vast data base of experience, but you will get a handle on it pretty fast. (If you do not already)


Doug.
 

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dave morgan

Plastic
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
It’s one thing to drop your rate in an attempt to get your foot in the door but it’s not so good to be going into jobs knowing that you are upside down.

Sure, it’s very important to have a good grasp on what you are going to have into a job when you bid on it but it is also important to have an idea of what the job is worth to the customer. You have to feel them out. Once you develop a rapport it becomes easier.

Just saying don’t sell yourself short.

Dave
 








 
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