Shop rate for Boring mills in Midwest

[Bradley.linsmeye]

Were starting to get in to larger work for our own production needs and are looking at buying a CNC boring mill. a Kuraki with full rotary table. has travels around 70 inches. Whats a shop rate you guys normally charge for a machine like this?

Im comfortable quoting work on VMC's and lathe with live tooling but this is a little out of my avenue

Thanks in advanced

 

[DDoug]

Were starting to get in to larger work for our own production needs and are looking at buying a CNC boring mill. a Kuraki with full rotary table. has travels around 70 inches. Whats a shop rate you guys normally charge for a machine like this?

Im comfortable quoting work on VMC's and lathe with live tooling but this is a little out of my avenue

Thanks in advanced

Are you efficient in this kind of work ?
Do you have sufficient over head cranes ?
Or getting by with loading by forklift ?
Plenty of work holding next to the machine for quick access ?
Plenty of various tooling as well ?

 

[Bradley.linsmeye]

yes we have a 40 ton crane as well as jib cranes, we have the machine in a bay with 40 feet in front of it and 20 feet next to it open. we have a smaller boring mill currently but its so old ( has a General numeric control) that i just dont feel like it can be quoted as a "boring mill" its a small horizontal mill. and its very slow. We have plenty of Cat 50 tooling around to get us started. were going to be purchasing some stuff for the machine as well.

 

[eKretz]

Efficiency plays a big role in hourly rate. Without knowing their capabilities it is not easy to say what an individual shop should charge. I can tell you that in the shop I last worked, the mid sized horizontal boring mills (120" X axis travel) were estimated with a target of $100-$120 per hour and often did considerably better than that. Larger machines are even higher because they aren't very common. However I'm not sure how helpful that will be, those were not CNC machines.

 

[john.k]

Does anyone else have a big borer within 50 miles?,,,,,,,If so,likely you will need to consider their rates ,and how much work /leadtime they have...The other consideration with costly workpieces is what happens if you stuff up?.......will you have a "sinking fund" to cover these unforseen expenses.?

 

[Speedie]

$400hr for the big ones. 100-120 per hour...what decade are you living in

 

[eKretz]

That was not for the bigger ones... Those were actually on the smaller end of midsized. Like I said, more for larger machines. And that shop made plenty of money, believe you me.

 

[AD Design]

I ran a large(r) Kuraki in the 90's. Don't know the rates but if you're in the Midwest you could contact A-1 Tool in Melrose Park (Illinois) and ask them. They likely still have one or two from the photos on their website.

 

[triumph406]

I ran a large(r) Kuraki in the 90's. Don't know the rates but if you're in the Midwest you could contact A-1 Tool in Melrose Park (Illinois) and ask them. They likely still have one or two from the photos on their website.

If your suggestion is to call to find shop rates, may not work

I don't tell anybody my shop rates.
I"ll quote but don't include either hours or rates.
Rates vary depending
on machine that would be used,
time of day,
phase of the moon
whether I think customer will be (or has been) a pita,
whether I want to do the job or not
etc etc

 

[AD Design]

If your suggestion is to call to find shop rates, may not work

I don't tell anybody my shop rates.
I"ll quote but don't include either hours or rates.
Rates vary depending
on machine that would be used,
time of day,
phase of the moon
whether I think customer will be (or has been) a pita,
whether I want to do the job or not
etc etc

You're right, why bother trying.

 

[triumph406]

You're right, why bother trying.

I said it may not work. Some shops will tell you their rate, some will not.

No harm in asking.

 

[AD Design]

I said it may not work. Some shops will tell you their rate, some will not.

No harm in asking.

-You're right on a couple of points. I likely wouldn't tell anybody my shop rate either. Even quoting a job (as you suggested) would be very situational per open spindle time, PITA factor, etc. Most here probably operate under the same guidelines. Lack of replies indicates this is at least partially true.

OP asked a question here that's subject to those same guidelines, who here wants their rates published in a public forum? I suggested calling a shop that I know is rather private about info. What I didn't post is to select a job the OP had a good estimation of for spindle time. When getting a quote from the shop an estimation can be made of the rate. A few more calls can gather enough data to toss out the "Don't want the job" quotes. That shop is doing well enough that I don't feel I've betrayed a trust or compromised their bottom line.

We're also in agreement on the basis for my post "No harm in asking".

 

[eKretz]

I don't know about you fellas, but every time I made an estimate, I always had a base shop rate in mind. I started there, then considered other factors to alter it. Factors like expected delivery time, availability of machines for the work during that time period and necessity of overtime, the type of work and machine, etc. There is always a base rate in mind, but it can be adjusted as necessary. I think that holds true for everywhere that does much of a variety of work. So in effect, you could ask a shop's hourly rate - and they might even be willing to give you a number - but it's not going to be something you can rely on to be the same exact number for every hour of work they do. It will only be a ballpark. For high production CNC type work that might be a little more uniform, but even there you're likely going to see some variation.

 

[Laurentian]

I don't know about you fellas, but every time I made an estimate, I always had a base shop rate in mind. I started there, then considered other factors to alter it. Factors like expected delivery time, availability of machines for the work during that time period and necessity of overtime, the type of work and machine, etc. There is always a base rate in mind, but it can be adjusted as necessary.

Totally agree, no way can you charge same rate for finishing, sandblast, polish, inspection and packaging as you do programming and actually making chips.

 

[triumph406]

When I was working at a couple of places doing Aerospace R&D work, we had to disclose hours and rates as part of the quote. This was for typically Govmn't work thru the Aerospace companies, Northrop,Lockheed etc etc

We had hours and rates broken down for CNC machining, CNC programming, Engineering design,Draughting, Conventional maching, bench work, administartion,QC

So a line item might be

LH Fairing,
Design 10 hours at $75/hour = $750
programming, 3 hours at $60/hour = $180
CNC machining 22 hours at $95/hour = $2090
Conventional 3 hours at $55/hour = $165
QC 2 hours at $75/hour = $150
Total = $3335

This typically would be in an xls spreadsheet attached to the quote. $ rates in the above example is pulled out of the air.

 

[triumph406]

The one time I got into a pissing match with somebody who demanded to know my rates, I told him my current $/hr rate, which was comparable to my competition.

He had a conniption, couldn't understand how the rate could be so high etc etc. So I said ok I'll lower the rate to $xx/hour, which he thought was reasonable. (it wasn't) What the guy didn't notice is I increased the hours proportionally and ended up with the same total. So some seem to be fixated on the rate, and less so on the total, the low rate I think makes them feel their getting value for money

I think that's about the only time I've discussed rates with anybody. I don't even tell the few people who have worked for me the rates I charge.

--------------------------------------------------------

What made me 86 the above customer was another convo we had. To get a job done quickly, I told him I would be running the job on 2 CNC's. He thought in that case he should be getting a discount of 50% as he's paying me $xx/hour and not the machine time. I had to tell him he was actually paying $xx/hour per CNC. I gave him his material and PO back.