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Shortening a Haimer Taster

dcrace

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 26, 2002
Location
U.S.A.
You can purchase those with an integral BT30 holder. P/N 80.365.30.FHN. About $540.00 depending on where you are.
But if you don't want to spend the money I am pretty sure you can take the shank out of the Haimer, grind it down to .500, mount it in one of these short ER20 Rego-Fix holders. (there may be others available) Or if you have a super-short toolholder or can cut one short, you can always grind-down and silver-solder the shank into the holder and the re-mount it to the taster with the set screws.
Rego.jpg
 

empower

Stainless
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
The thing that I don't like about starting from a blank is that getting all the machine work concentric with the taper super precisely would be a difficult since I don't have a way to hold it on the taper while machining. I'd have to hold it on the flange. I know the Haimer is zeroed once installed but if the rotational axis of it isn't concentric with the taper it seems to me that as the plunger is depressed that inaccuracy will result. Maybe i'm over thinking. It seems like whacking the nose off an endmill holder would be more precise.

uh, sure you do. put it in the spindle and clamp tools in a vice. think outside the box
 

couch

Cast Iron
Joined
Jun 10, 2009
Location
Anaheim, California
The MariTool BT30 ER32 holders are pretty short too at 52mm. One I have at home is a 62mm version but I have a ton of Z in my machine, too much actually.

BT30 ER32 52mm Collet Chuck Tool Holder - Made in USA MariTool

Shortest setup though will be to grab a 3/4” endmill holder and cut some shank off the Haimer, face the holder flush with the flange and add a new set screw location in one of the flats. Have been thinking about doing this for a while, even contacted Tom at Mari a while back about it but they were slammed at the time and I didn’t really need it. More than anything I just wanted a dedicated holder for the Haimers that matched the shape/diameter, being shorter was also a plus though.

As far as indicating goes, the whole thing moves around parallel to the taper so it doesn’t tip when you indicate it. Any runout in the holder isn’t going to effect the accuracy of it, even if it shifts a lot.
 

Pete Deal

Stainless
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Location
Morgantown, WV
uh, sure you do. put it in the spindle and clamp tools in a vice. think outside the box

I did think of that. Not doing it. If my lathe didn't like cutting it my mill spindle isn't going to like it any better.

More info-
I took it back out of the tool holder and measured. Shortening the tool holder isn't going to do much. The hole in the tool holder is only about .3" longer than the shank. Not much to gain. Can't shorten the shank easily since the bolt that holds it to the instrument goes through there. Uphill battle here.

Comparison of the various gage lengths with a little closer look at the catalog.

What I have- 6.8"
Haimer probe with integral BT30 shank - 5.67", Cost: $600+
Haimer Zero Master in 10mm 1.2" gage length endmill holder from Maritool - 4.98", Cost: $500
 

gregormarwick

Diamond
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Location
Aberdeen, UK
I did think of that. Not doing it. If my lathe didn't like cutting it my mill spindle isn't going to like it any better.

More info-
I took it back out of the tool holder and measured. Shortening the tool holder isn't going to do much. The hole in the tool holder is only about .3" longer than the shank. Not much to gain. Can't shorten the shank easily since the bolt that holds it to the instrument goes through there. Uphill battle here.

Comparison of the various gage lengths with a little closer look at the catalog.

What I have- 6.8"
Haimer probe with integral BT30 shank - 5.67", Cost: $600+
Haimer Zero Master in 10mm 1.2" gage length endmill holder from Maritool - 4.98", Cost: $500

I have cut holders in the spindle plenty of times, it works fine.

Generally speaking they are pretty hard, so if you were having trouble cutting it it was probably due to the cutting tool rather than the spindle.

Ceramic or CBN inserts, no problem.
 

Pete Deal

Stainless
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Location
Morgantown, WV
Oh boy you guys are really trying to get me in trouble here! Great ideas though.

Back to the shop and look some more. The threaded hole for the pull stud is threaded way deeper than needed for the pull stud and the hole goes all the way through. The "spigot" is held onto the indicator head by an an M6x1 bolt. then it has little set screws at the bottom for centering it.

So, thinking, maybe as Barbter says shorten the spigot shank. Shorten the tool holder. Glue the spigot into the tool holder. Get an M12 set screw and drill a 6mm clearance hole through it. Put the set screw into the pull stud hole deep (locktite in) and put the 6mm bolt to hold the indicator head through this.

Gregormarwick- I don't have much experience with hard turning so just grabbed an insert. Can get a better suited insert or two for the task.
 

barbter

Diamond
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
On Tour...
Pete - can you unscrew the haimer shank?
If so, perhaps make a new custom shank which has a short M12 on the end - attach this to the haimer, and wind the holder on it?
You'd have to play with the dims facing the nose of the holder off, to allow the haimer to face forward when tightening it?
Just another thought :D
 

plastikdreams

Diamond
Joined
May 31, 2011
Location
upstate nj
Showoff!
We had probes on both lathes....

I used to play with a nakamura tome c axis twin turret lathe...we had a probe for that, didn't stay in the machine though.

I crashed it once...it wasn't even a crash but more of a bump, both turrets touched. It was enough to knock it out of calibration. I guess after the guy knocked a turret off its mounts the machine became over protective. :)
 

MeanMachine1980

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
I have been working on getting my 4th axis setup on my Brother S1000. An issue I have is that my Haimer is a little too long. My whole 4th axis setup (Brother T200 rotary) is pretty high.

My Haimer probe is in a 3/4" endmill holder with about 2-1/4" gage length. This makes the whole assembly pretty long. I was looking around to see if there are any shorter 3/4" endmill holders for Bt30. Maritool has one that's 2" but that seems as short as I can find. I think the 3/4" BT30 holders are longer to avoid deforming the taper. I thought Haimer had probes with integral taper shanks but that doesn't seem to be the case. Thinking maybe cut the endmill holder off by an inch or so and locktite the probe in? I started to face the tool holder off but that'll be a project. Not sure how hard it is but I need to get a few more inserts to get it cut down this way. Can't remember the brand. Looks like Haimer makes a probe with a 12mm shank. But I don't see any short 12mm endmill holders either.

Anybody got any ideas?

Another thing working against me is that on the S1000 the rotary needs to set on an adapter plate. I'm thinking at some point I may drill and tap holes in the table to eliminate the adapter plate to help this situation. This will lower the 4th by 3/4". Not going to rush into this.

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/52228178
 

Pete Deal

Stainless
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Location
Morgantown, WV

That one isn’t much shorter. Can’t remember all the specs. I have the universal version w/ 3/4” shank. They offer the universal with an integral bt30 shank that’s shorter than the one linked. I called haimerusa this week to see if I could just buy the bt30 shank. The guy said it’s available but he’d get back to me on price. Never did. Typical 21st century worthless vendor. Second option will be to modify what I have which will ultimately be shorter and about $550 cheaper than the msc version linked.
 

jz79

Stainless
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
The thing that I don't like about starting from a blank is that getting all the machine work concentric with the taper super precisely would be a difficult since I don't have a way to hold it on the taper while machining. I'd have to hold it on the flange. I know the Haimer is zeroed once installed but if the rotational axis of it isn't concentric with the taper it seems to me that as the plunger is depressed that inaccuracy will result. Maybe i'm over thinking. It seems like whacking the nose off an endmill holder would be more precise.

you don't need cocentricity, that is what the 4 adjustment screws are for, when you design and machine your holder you do away with the original shank and reproduce the geometry at the bottom end of it on your holder, the only precision required is to have a perpendicular to spindle axis and flat face on the bottom of the holder, which can be easily done with a lathe tool held in a vice and your custom holder in the mills spindle, in fact, the only "difficult" thing is to drill and tap the deep holes for the adjustment/set screws

that is what the ~300$ holder in one of links is (the one for 600 total for the probe+holder)
 

gregormarwick

Diamond
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Location
Aberdeen, UK
you don't need cocentricity, that is what the 4 adjustment screws are for, when you design and machine your holder you do away with the original shank and reproduce the geometry at the bottom end of it on your holder, the only precision required is to have a perpendicular to spindle axis and flat face on the bottom of the holder, which can be easily done with a lathe tool held in a vice and your custom holder in the mills spindle, in fact, the only "difficult" thing is to drill and tap the deep holes for the adjustment/set screws

that is what the ~300$ holder in one of links is (the one for 600 total for the probe+holder)

The problem with this is that while boring out a toolholder and facing it off are reasonably easy, drilling and tapping four small holes axially through to the centre is definitely not easy. You are way understating "difficult" on that point, unless you have a toolholder that is soft in that area. Generally they are not.

Putting the holder in the spindle and boring it out with a boring bar held in a vice on the table is a massively easier proposition.
 

jz79

Stainless
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
The problem with this is that while boring out a toolholder and facing it off are reasonably easy, drilling and tapping four small holes axially through to the centre is definitely not easy. You are way understating "difficult" on that point, unless you have a toolholder that is soft in that area. Generally they are not.

Putting the holder in the spindle and boring it out with a boring bar held in a vice on the table is a massively easier proposition.


couple Sandvik capto ones that I modified were case hardened, maybe 0.5mm deep, easy to drill through with any cheap carbide center drill, so the "problem" would be finding one that doesn't have a through hole, and finishing that part yourself, else tapping close to the center and running into hard case may indeed ruin the day

or bore out and make an insert piece, tight sliding fit, loctite it in, big enough for adjustment threads to fit, it doesn't need to hold the Haimer in, just center it, holding is done via tensioning bolt in the middle

as I said - the only precision necessary is a perpendicular face on the bottom of the holder

p.s. I don't have 30 taper holders, and too lazy to search for a drawing to make sure everything would fit, but from memory that centering nib at the end was about 10mm square, so another 10mm on each side for the adjustment screws, that would mean a 30mm dia insert to fit at the end of the 30taper flange
 








 
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