Should I get a forklift or a tractor with forks? Gravel driveway use.

[traditional-tools]

If you want to use a forklift on gravel, you really need a rough terrain forklift, like a Cat RC-60/R-80, LiftAll, or similar.

You can get by with some of the propane lifts with pneumatic or solid tires, but they eventually get stuck. DAMHIKT!

Only a few rough terrain lifts run on propane, some of the Champs do, as do some of the Hysters. This is also a concern as propane is really the only suitable fuel for inside a building.

Cheers,
Alan

 

[BobRenz]

A solid tire forklift will work on packed gravel, if you don't spin the wheels. When the spin, down you go, but you can often tilt the mast enough to shovel gravel or use some lumber under the wheels. They can also sometimes go into a right foot - left foot wobble - when that happens, take your foot off the gas, let it settle down, then drive it out carefully.

I'd go with propane - a propane lift is a lot more common these days than gasoline, plus you just have to close the valve and walk away. Gasoline just gets older, and never better.

 

[S_W_Bausch]

You will not regret installing asphalt or concrete. Bite the bullet, put it down, and THEN consider your material handling needs.

Normally when trucks come in we use a liftgate and pallet jack to load.

Well....you didn't describe where the truck parks, the length of driveway, etc.

So I suggest the first step is more hard pavement

 

[janc]

Buy the Kubota and a bunch of attachments! you will not regret it. A 30 hp one will have plenty of lift for most of what you want, the clamp on forks are good and you can get a set of forks for the three point as well. A forklift is best if you are going to use it all the time for heavy items, but for an occasional lift of something that is just to big to horse around, the tractor is the way to go, rent the forklift when you need it. I have a B20 and use it almost daily, my AC forklift will go to scrap due to lack of use, and it often got stuck when not on a hard surface. Just no end to the attachments and uses for these little tractors.

 

[kustomizingkid]

If you know how to use one a bobcat can do it all, but in the hands of an inexperienced operator it is dangerous. I'd buy a skid steer, but I have been driving them since I was 12 hahaha

 

[ADFToolmaker]

You mentioned the tractor is tempting because of the range of attachments, mower, blade etc.

What you need to do is get a rough terrain forklift, good ag grip tyres, and adapt a mower so it mounts on the forks. You can drive it with a hydraulic motor plumbed into the sideshift, or if that does not supply enough flow, plumb in a dedicated circuit. You could even cut the tops of hedges with it!

We want photos, or better yet, video.

 

[motion guru]

I too have a Kubota with forks, 1999 L3010 with a woods loader. 1500 lbs max with the backhoe on the back. (Or it will stand on its nose). You will have lousy control raising and lowering while trying to keep it level. Buy a tractor if you need a tractor and only need to use as a forklift sparingly. Agree with the industrial tires comment and get the rears filled with calcium.

If you are picking anything over 1000 lbs that is of value . . . buy a pneumatic tire forklift.

 

[Toolbert]

I've used an *old* chain drive style Bobcat skid steer with 48" forks for odd loading & unloading for 20 years. It lifts 2000 lbs close in on the forks. It takes way, way less space than a tractor of equivalent capacity. Its front axles and tires are designed for this load - compare it to a skinny tractor front tire meant for steering. The Bobcat is more stable on soft ground.

It's difficult to maintain smooth motion while steering, and requires some extra coordination to keep the load level - as does a tractor.

I plan jobs to minimize the turns from point A to point B.

You have to know it and your limits in particular understanding the load geometry i.e. how *lowering* the forks extends the CG forward. Easy to get in trouble lowering a load you've just picked off a truck.

 

[Frank Fox]

The background- we are in a rural area, our drive is gravel. We have a paved pad in front of the shop. Normally when trucks come in we use a liftgate and pallet jack to load. The problem is our crates going out are not especially heavy, but they are large-
Today I have a 2x4x8 600lb crate going out. That is tricky to get on the liftgate.
Plus I keep getting older......

So I have kicked around the idea of buying an old forklift, which will sit 99% of the time (somewhere, space is a problem too) or a 30hp Kubota or the like with a fork attachment, mower, blade etc that can be used for multiple things-like grading the drive..

Occasionally we rent a forklift, having seen the rental guy get one stuck real good offloading from the trailer I am dubious about a solid tire lift on our drive- he got off to the side on softer ground. Is a pneumatic tire lift, essential for softer ground?

your thoughts ?

I have both a tractor for my gravel driveway and a forklift, phnewmatic tire and you wont be happy with only one. I got an old WWII (BAKER) forklift (6000LB) Love it, but big and ugly. Get an old American made tractor for your driveway and forget the cheap jap tractors
Voice of experence.
Frank

 

[Long Tom]

I've rented all-terrain forklifts several times to move machine on my rural PNW property. This one most recently:

Pretty baddass machines! I expect they aren't cheap.

A friend of ours, a woman of about 50, came up with a funny. She says, "women hit menopause. Men hit tractorpause!" and she's right. Every middle-aged man wants him a TRACTOR! I sure do. But, that being said, tractors are poor excuses for a forklift and of all the advice given here, I like the notion of spending a few $K on driveway improvements (if that, gravel is cheap) and buying a used propane forklift.

 

[MrFluffy]

I'd call that a telehandler over here, and I borrow my neighbors (well he drives it for me) to unload some stuff. I have a backhoe easily capable of the capacity (8 ton jcb) with forks but the issue is the control, lack of sideshift on the head for fine manoevering, how it bounces on its big fat agri tyres across the yard etc. Id rather scoop stuff into the bucket and strap it there to move it, but Id rather have the telehandler do it even more.

There are rough terrain forklifts which look like a offspring of a tractor and a vertical mast forklift designed for building sites, which are often vastly cheaper because they lack the telecoping facility of the telehandlers.

Or make your drive flat and level. You can always buy a cheap tractor for playing with in the garden too.

 

[AndyF]

One other option, not the best, but can be better than forks strapped on a loader is to get a forklift mast and make a 3pt mount for it and mount it on the back of your tractor. We have an old Allis Chalmers mast with a hydraulic top link on a 60hp MFWD tractor and it does OK taking a pallet off the back of a truck and moving palletized material around the farm. We were able to get the mast w/3 pt mounts for $500.

For your situation, Ries probably has the best suggestion - improve your driveway and get a real forklift.

 

[bsg]

I have a Hyster forklift and a John Deere 110TLB, I would use the the forklift if at all possible.

The problem with lifting with a tractor is when you're not on level ground, it does not take very much weight to shift and the tractor will tip!
My tractor is rated around 2700 lbs., I have lifted close to capacity and was not at all comfortable moving around with it.
I'm sure the operators that do this all time will say suck it up, but I don't need that much excitement!
It is not fun trying to pick up a machine that was dropped in the dirt.

I have got my forklift stuck in the dirt and that is no fun either.

The tractor will work, but you have to be way more careful on it while carrying a load versus a forklift.

The tractor will do a lot of different tasks with the appropriate attachments, only you can decide if it will be worth buying a machine that does many things but maybe not the best suited for the intended purpose.

Good luck.

Kevin

 

[Cole2534]

Build a better pad and buy a forklift. I paid $900 for my 3000# Clark, found it on CL, and would really be lost without it.

 

[neilho]

If you do go the tractor route, (my choice for general versatility) be wary of Kubotas. The hydraulics are notoriously touchy, lift ratings are low and lift height is less than a comparable horsepower John Deere.

And if cost is a factor, a 2 wheel drive tractor with a rear fork/ lift mast is going to be quite a bit less than 4wd. Higher load rating and reach, too.

Neil

 

[WILLEO6709]

my vote would be put down concrete and get a cheap lp cushion tire.... Dad has a 95hp Massey Ferguson with a REALLY nice loader on it, anything over 3500 lbs lifts the tractor. The tractor is not a cheap investment... concrete is way cheaper.

 

[Anvil Jenkins]

Buy some 7/16 OSB and keep it around. When I moved my stuff into my garage I used a rented forklift to put it on a trailer at my old shop, and unload it here. Well I found out the previous owner filled in front of the garage door with PEA STONE not crushed stone(thin layer of crushed stone on top)..which is not good for a forklift with solid rubber tires.

BUT I had some 7/16 osb around, and that forklift went around on it just fine even over that "fluidized bed" of pea stone. Most of the driveway which is crushed stone was fine, just the one area was no go. I learned the hard way a LONG time ago that off concrete or other hard surface with a normal lift truck is just asking for it...still have done it when the need arose, but if I do it here at home again I will be sure to have some OSB around hehe.

 

[stoneaxe]

Thanks for all the replies.
My gravel drive is hardpacked and smooth, and level. There is a 20 x20 concrete pad next to the building, that is what i run the pallet jack on. It sounds like the best plan is looking for a pneumatic tire propane forklift and being careful on the gravel.

 

[Anvil Jenkins]

Thanks for all the replies.
My gravel drive is hardpacked and smooth, and level. There is a 20 x20 concrete pad next to the building, that is what i run the pallet jack on. It sounds like the best plan is looking for a pneumatic tire propane forklift and being careful on the gravel.

Honestly though concrete, no matter how much would be required, if it will allow using the far more common solid tire fork lifts, is the cheapest fix.

Bill

 

[DaveKamp]

Load calculation...

I've got a forklift, use many different types all the time... also have a tractor with front-end loader, have a pair of forks that I can put on any one of several tractors, that just use the 3-point (no mast). Have also used skid-steers with forks, and forks-on-bucket...

When I need to load, the first thing I look at, is the weight of the load, and determine it's center-of-gravity, then look at where it's coming FROM, and going TO.

OP's notes suggested somewhere around 4000-5000lbs, palletized, loading onto a semi... I don't recall if he identifed the shape.

but let's say you've got a 60" square pallet that has a 5000lb load weight who's CG is a foot above the pallet top, centered in the 60" pallet...

That means, when you place it ALL the way on the forks, your CG will be 3' past the face of the fork, and 1' above. And with the semi-loading situation, you'll need to lift up about 6', and reach OVER the deck of the trailer... if you want to get to the middle of the trailer, you're looking at reaching in about 3' or so.

With most forklifts, this won't be a difficult situation to sort out... just look at the dataplate, and see if it has load limit specified for a 36" load center... typically, they'll have 24 and 48, so you can get a fair feel for what 36" will yield.

Now, keep in mind that the stability of the forklift is determined by the balance of a triangle shape that goes from the center of each mast-end wheel, to the center of the steering-axle pivot. Let's say the load is 36" out from the face, which is 12" from the edge of the tires, and the tires are 40" in diameter, so the load center, from the point where the tires contact the ground, is 36+12+20=68".

The forklift has a counterweight that is on the far end. Most forklifts I've worked on and with, if the counterweight is removed, the forklift will present MOST of it's weight on the mast-end wheels, but still sit flat. If you tip the mast forward, most will pick up the front wheels and fall forward on the forks. This tells you about how the machine's operating balance occurs... and from a fore-aft perspective, it's all a function of ratios and counterweight. This ALSO tells you that when you tilt the mast (and load) forward, your counterweight reaction is HIGHER... because you have the load center moving farther away from the tire contact point (the triangle), and also, because the weight of the mast is considerable.

Then there's lateral stability... the forklift's support triangle is only-so-wide. In an ideal scenario, the forklift will NEVER be in anything other than a horizontal surface... but I've yet to find an entrance apron to a building that was flat, while at the same time, capable of pushing rain away from the building.... SO... one has to be aware of the load presenting a lateral shift in balance to the machine... again, it's all about where the CG appears with respect to the support triangle. IF you have the load elevated 10' above the machine, that compounds the reaction necessary to maintain stability, and at the same time, concentrates the load on the downhill tire, which, if it's on surface unable to support the pressure, the tire sinks, further increasing load angle, rapidly sending the machine horizontal.

Now consider the load placed on the axles. A forklift's steering axle is loaded heaviest when there's nothing on the forks, sitting still, or worse, with fully loaded forks, extended to full height, with mast tilted all the way back. [I've never done this, and can't think of a reason why I'd ever do it, even if that sort of lift was required...] Now consider the highest load found on the DRIVE(mast) end. When the forks are loaded to the point where the STEER tires are off the ground. What's the load on those wheels? Easy: Weight of the forklift, plus weight of the load. On my Clark IT60, that number comes out around 24,000lbs between the two tires. The IT60 is a pneumatic super-single tire approx 34" diameter, 18" wide, with a backhoe-shaped construction tread... now holding 12,000lbs a tire. Although it's a good, stout tire, and on a large amount of surface, The ground surface underneath that tire is carrying a whole lotta pressure, and of course, the machine's axle is too...

So where's this going?

Compare the load triangle of a forklift, to the load-triangle of a utility tractor with front end loader bucket, with forks. You'll see that the face of the forks, are MUCH farther away from the front axle. The load distance is so far out, that the amount of counterweight required is very high... and all that load shows up on the STEER axle of the tractor.

My dad's little Kubota BX2300(?) is a handy little dude, but when it comes to lifting, it's an absolute wimp, and for really good reason: The boom is LONG, so when you're scooping mulch into a dump-trailer, you can lift up and over the side of the trailer bed... and if you lift too much, you'd be putting a LOTTA load on a nifty, but rather expensive-to-repair 4wd front axle sitting on two rather lame turf tires. My buddy's bigger Kubota (50hp range or so), is for all practical purposes, the same machine in philosophy, only scaled up... and when I pull the bucket up, I know one thing for certain- it will not waste any time in hitting the pressure relief valve limit... and if I try to 'sneak' it up a little more, the machine will NEED the front drive axle engaged in order to move... which is a bad thing, because that means the load now owns you.

Quick-attach systems are cool- nice to be able to pop the bucket off, and slap on forks, or a bale spear, or a hydraulic concrete demolition hammer... and for forks, that means you have the load closer to the machine's axle, so favorable geometry. The downside, is that the additional metal required for the QA, makes both the loader frame AND the implement heavier than if it were purpose-built for the situation. Wouldn't seem like much, but for an average skid-steer, the QA plate on the bucket alone, is frequently close to the comparable wieght of a conventional bucket.

Lifting with skid-steers... the biggest advantage to lifting with a skid-steer, is that if you're at the side of the truck, and the load is crooked, you can pivot (albeit usually not gently) to correct the angle of the load. Depending on the length of forks and boom reach, you may not be able to reach the center of the trailer as well as other options, but you'll be able to see the load from the underside, provided the deck of the trailer isn't staring you in the face. The other advantage to a skid-steer, is that the overall length is short, so more maneuverable in comparison to say... a telehandler or conventional forklift... but they're certainly not gentle, and I have a gentle touch with forklifts...

Another option which nobody mentioned, is to find an articulating loader, remove the bucket, and fit a set of forks. The articulating loader has it's advantages and disadvantages... the most safety-critical being that since it pivots in the middle, the relationship of the load to the counterweight makes for a support triangle who's footprint changes with steering angle. IF you're not lifting anywhere near the machine's capacity, it'll never be a problem, but if you DO approach it's limits, it will git you. Up-side, is that they're pretty sure footed on most conditions, and can make some other tasks incredibly easy... ripping out trees, repairing the driveway, moving snow, extracting stuck forklifts... and when found used, they're frequently found rather cheap... elevated seating position makes for good visibility for loading a truck, but they don't duck under garage doors well. If you get a run at it, though... the door won't stop it from coming inside...

Another possible solution, is to set four large posts in a dedicated spot in the driveway, place beams across the tops, install a rolling gantry, then have the truck back under the gantry to be loaded with overhead hoist. No fuel required...