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Should I get a forklift or a tractor with forks? Gravel driveway use.

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
If you want tracks,simply get a Case 1150 loader with forks and a 4 in 1 bucket ........my old Massey 500 would lift 6 ton with forks,and pick up big trees with the 4 in 1 .....it was the equivalent of a D6C in a more compact package .....unfortunately an orphan ,and its now scrap metal unless I cared to rebuild it as a hydrostatic drive.
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
If you want tracks,simply get a Case 1150 loader with forks and a 4 in 1 bucket ........my old Massey 500 would lift 6 ton with forks,and pick up big trees with the 4 in 1 .....it was the equivalent of a D6C in a more compact package .....unfortunately an orphan ,and its now scrap metal unless I cared to rebuild it as a hydrostatic drive.

Sorry, we millennial snowflakes like fingertip controls and AC.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
One time I bought some stuff at a mine clearing sale ......the on site loading was with a Cat 992 loader........the bottom of the bucket was the whole size of my truck tray ......a chain was put on one bucket tooth ,you had to hook up with this huge bucket over the top of you.
 

DaveKamp

Titanium
Joined
Oct 3, 2004
Location
LeClaire, Ia
I have several lifting machines in my fleet... including, but not limited to:

Hyster H50H forklift, 7x16 drive and slightly smaller steer pneumatic tires, Monotrol foot direction/throttle, 192 Ford four, 12ft lift mast, 6500lb machine.

Clark IT-60 rough-terrain forklift, 'Super-Single' drive and 30" diam x 10 wide pneumatic steers, 225 slant six, multistage collapsing-cylinder, 32ft lift, about 18,000lbs

IH4130 skid steer, repowered with Kubota 3-cyl diesel

Kubota BX1800 with front end loader, removable forks

Allis-Chalmers D17 (series 1) with a 3-point attachment with forks (no mast, just 3-point).

Each one has it's advantages and disadvantages.

The H50H will go anywhere that there's flat, solid, well-packed, or deep-frozen gravel... or concrete. IF it isn't perfectly flat, solid, well packed, or deep-frozen, you'll be pulling it out with the Allis. It'll work in a tight spot, and lift nicely, and with an overhanging boom, it makes a fairly nice crane, but don't expect it to turn tight on anything other than solid, level concrete. If you have a load on it, and turn on gravel, the inner tire will dig in immediately, and if your load happens to be over about knee high, the machine will destabilize FAST.

The IT-60 will go over MOST of the gravel, and SOME soft surfaces. the Super Singles are wide, but not nearly as tall as a tractor tire, so they'll float, but with it's mast, the 60 is a heavy pig. If you try to turn in anything more than very gradual, it'll dig a drive tire straight down, just like the Hyster... even without a load. The 60 has a wide footprint, which is fortunate- the mast is VERY heavy, so it needs the wide to survive a lean. Keep in mind, this machine was designed for the mast to lay back against the cage, and the shaft-mount forks flip up and lock into holders on the mast, with a pintle-hitch tow-bar attached to the counterweight, surge-brakes on the coupler so it can be flat-towed down the highway. The steer axle has springs, and the truck has a 4-speed Clark transmission along with it's shuttle shift box (torque converter), it has a fair ability to climb, and in 4th gear, it'll hustle down a road at 25mph... but it's very uncomfortable, as the steering is vane-pump hydraulic, and rather vague.

The IH 4130 is basically a Hydra-Mac, it was originally a 2cyl Onan, I repowered with a Kubota 800ish CC three-cyl diesel. It has a ROPS, and I've got both forks and a bucket. As for maneuverability and load, it's a small skid-steer, it'll go fairly tight places, but it's 25hp, and only about 2600lbs, and small footprint, on 15x8 snow tires- it's not a tracked skid-steer weighing 12000lbs and a 90hp diesel... it might be good for 800lbs or so... right at the face of the mast... anything past that, if you back up, you plant your face. It won't work on hillsides in ANY direction, and as others have noted, if you're gonna use it as a lifting machine, you can't do it alone, you need a ground-man. Visibility is very restrictive, you can't get out if there's something wrong, and because it's a balance-critical machine, it is VERY limited reach, and will NOT tolerate an overhanging load. It WILL get into places, and it will push and pull things, and wedge the bucket under, and get a wood block under the back of the bucket, it will lever up some amazing loads... but it cannot carry or handle them. Picking up a fully-dressed small block, no problem... lifting and placing it in the back of a pickup can get hairy. As long as a load is low, it does okay... just don't sink it into soft ground. A larger machine, with more significant tires, or tracks, and more weight, lower CG, would do much better, but at much higher cost, and much larger footprint.

Now, the Kubota BX1800. This is an 18hp 3cyl diesel with live hydraulics and a front end loader. It happens to also have a 3-point hitch, it's 4wd. I have a detatchable weight box, and iron weights on each rear wheel... but no fluid in the rears. Front tires are filled with tire foam. I can pop the bucket off and put on a pair of light forks, but most of the time, I'm using chains to hooks on the bucket. These tractors tend to be rather weak in the hydraulic department, I have to crank it up to full snot to get significant lift, it'll pick several hundred pounds, and because of it's size and geometry, it will maneuver into places that many other things just cannot go... it'll also chain up and pull from both ends, and it'll do it really well... but the BX series has some driveline weaknesses that people need to be careful of, one of them is to NOT use the differential lock (just take the pedal off, so nobody does). The other is to only put it in 4wd when you NEED to, otherwise you'll be carrying some load, and be totally unaware that the rear tires aren't on the ground. Not a carrying brute, but a very handy and capable tool when the need suits.

The Allis D17 is an agricultural utility tractor in the 60hp range, they were built from '57 to mid '60's, mine is the earliest version... the first three series were NOT available with any sort of 3-point hitch, because the 3ph was under a heavily enforced patent held by Harry Ferguson. After that patent expired, the 3ph became a standard thing for most manufacturers. My D17 had a factory 2-point lifting system, as most others did... I added bracketry, arms, and links to give it my own version of a 3-point, and it'll accept any Category 2 implement. I made a face to fit Category 2, that accepts a standard style of forklift forks, and I fitted a pair of 48"ers to it. The face and forks weigh about 200lbs, and the Allis's lift system will hoist this setup, and still have about 3000lbs of lifting capacity AFTER. The nose of the tractor gets light after about 2600lbs, so I add weights to the nose. Original tires for the D17 were 13.6-28's on adjustable spinout wheels, I replaced my worn out originals with a pair of 18.4-26's on solid wheels from a combine... wider footprint, slightly larger diameter, and low price. No fluid in any of the tires, the tractor weighs around 3800lbs. It has 4 transmission speeds and a high-neutral-low range operator. 4th and high, at full governed speed will get you about 12mph, but in 1st and low, at idle, it will inch it's way up OR down an incline with no drama. With split brakes, it will pivot on one wheel when you need to turn tighter, and it'll steer with brakes when the nose is too light. While it isn't the ULTIMATE in forklifting, it has the ability to maneuver through, over, under, and around things that a conventional forklift cannot, it can cross over soft ground that the skidsteer cannot, and it can lift and carry things that would otherwise be unreachable by anything other than a crane or telehandler. The primary advantage, is that the tractor doesn't have a mast, so it isn't vexed with the high center of gravity of a forklift, doesn't suffer the added weight, and consequently, doesn't need the ground surface pressure. With it's large-diameter tires, it can carry a significant load weight over soft surface, and not be at peril of getting stuck or sinking and tipping. The down-side, is that the tractor cannot lift high... but it is able to lift up a 3000lb pallet of bricks and set it on my trailer... It'll lift IBC totes full of debris or firewood, and if I need to go higher, I just tote them around to the driveway, and pull out the H50H.

The all-terrain forklifts that 'look' like they're based on tractors, is somewhat of a misnomer. While they have that layout, identifying them as such, is like calling a Case 580D a 'farm tractor with a backhoe attachment'... it's about the farthest thing from it. One can BUILD an AT forklift by reversing a tractor, and that's part of what factory builds did for those machines, but they thoroughly revisited every aspect of the machine to transform it into an AT forklift. Even REGULAR forklifts came from redesign of a common truck, so qualifying a design from any point in history is irrelevant.

Every machine has it's good and bad points... a telehandler would cover many, but not all... but the pricetag is out of my 'allowed domestic budget'. The least costly, and save for one aspect, most effective, has been the D17 with 3-point forks. In all the cases when it couldn't accomplish either the load weight, or the lifting height, it was able to do one thing that NO other machine could:

Drag a stuck forklift out of a hole, back onto solid surface.
 

86turbodsl

Cast Iron
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
MI, USA
Just so we're on the same page, the advantage those flipped around tractor things have over a forklift is they have tractor tires.

Compared to a real forklift they are very light duty for their size. They are not geared the same as a forklift, they are typically stickshift with a dry clutch. Good for doing 20MPH down the road, not so much for careful positioning.

I've seen a lot of those flipped around tractor things with low hours and in real nice shape for sale compared to a real forklift.

IMO, if you think a flipped around tractor is a good forklift for you then a mast mounted to your tractors 3 pt is probably a good idea. Atleast then you can still use the tractor for tractory stuff that it's good at.

If you need a forklift and need to load stuff on trucks, like heavy stuff, get a forklift. That's what they're really good at believe it or not.
I don't agree with your statement, fwiw, i have several forklifts and many hours on quite a few different machines. The tractor based rough terrain ones are just fine with typical farm loads. The thing you won't get with a 3pt add on is sideshift. i have that. I am not a big fan of scabbed on 3pt conversions. The factory made versions, which mine is, feel just like a normal forklift outside of the manual trans. I can place items and load / unload trailers just fine thank you. It was engineered as a rough terrain forklift, and while based on a tractor, it has significant modifications to enable it to safely do so. There's plenty of farmer conversions floating around however.
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
I don't agree with your statement, fwiw, i have several forklifts and many hours on quite a few different machines. The tractor based rough terrain ones are just fine with typical farm loads. The thing you won't get with a 3pt add on is sideshift. i have that. I am not a big fan of scabbed on 3pt conversions. The factory made versions, which mine is, feel just like a normal forklift outside of the manual trans. I can place items and load / unload trailers just fine thank you. It was engineered as a rough terrain forklift, and while based on a tractor, it has significant modifications to enable it to safely do so. There's plenty of farmer conversions floating around however.

Why couldn't it have sideshift? I don't follow. Sideshift, fork positioning, a rotator, whatever you could dream of could be used with a forklift mast attached to a 3PT.

What would be the reasoning to choose a flipped around tractor forklift over a Telehandler or pneumatic tire conventional forklift?
 

Pete Deal

Stainless
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Location
Morgantown, WV
I don’t have a turned around tractor forklift but have a telehandler. Telehandlers are BIG beasts and expensive even used. I haven’t squashed or knocked anything down yet but man it would be easy. I guess the backwards tractor lifts aren’t small either but it looks to me like they’d be a little easier to get around stuff. From what I’ve seen it appears they’re cheaper to pick up used than a telehandler too.

On the other hand my telehandler is rated at 6k lbs. I used it to unload my Mazak qt15, which I think is about 12k lbs. The telehandler didn’t seem bothered in the least with this load. So it seems they are pretty forgiving of overload for up close lifting. I can say I had no concern of it upsetting with an overload as I think I would with any other type forklift.
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
I don’t have a turned around tractor forklift but have a telehandler. Telehandlers are BIG beasts and expensive even used. I haven’t squashed or knocked anything down yet but man it would be easy. I guess the backwards tractor lifts aren’t small either but it looks to me like they’d be a little easier to get around stuff. From what I’ve seen it appears they’re cheaper to pick up used than a telehandler too.

On the other hand my telehandler is rated at 6k lbs. I used it to unload my Mazak qt15, which I think is about 12k lbs. The telehandler didn’t seem bothered in the least with this load. So it seems they are pretty forgiving of overload for up close lifting. I can say I had no concern of it upsetting with an overload as I think I would with any other type forklift.

That's been my experience too wrt overloading them. An 8K telehandler is rock solid with 10K on the forks and will probably shoot it out 15 feet before the wheels come up.

And they're long, but the crab steering makes up for it and then some. You can squeak a telehandler in very tight places and get it back out again because of all the steering modes they have.

Telehandler prices are tied to construction. I recall 2009-2011 era wishing I could spring for a $5000 telehandler a few times, but that was a lot of money to me back then. A couple months ago I saw a nice 1990's era Gradall 8K telehandler sell for $10k on craigslist. A week later it showed up on a construction jobsite just down the street from me and the GC returned one of his rentals. I know the local rental place charges $450/day for their 8K. $10K is paid off pretty quick in saved rental fees.
 

Pete Deal

Stainless
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Location
Morgantown, WV
Telehandler prices are tied to construction. I recall 2009-2011 era wishing I could spring for a $5000 telehandler a few times, but that was a lot of money to me back then. A couple months ago I saw a nice 1990's era Gradall 8K telehandler sell for $10k on craigslist. A week later it showed up on a construction jobsite just down the street from me and the GC returned one of his rentals. I know the local rental place charges $450/day for their 8K. $10K is paid off pretty quick in saved rental fees.

Yea, I got lucky with mine. Mine is a military surplus Skytrak. I got it for $8500 6-7 years ago. Bought it based on photos in an online auction. They had 10 or 12 of them for sale. Mine had some leaks so I took the chance thinking others would be scared off by them. It turned out to be pretty simple stuff so got a great machine cheap.

What you said on the steering is so. Really can get them around but man it's still tricky.
 

86turbodsl

Cast Iron
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
MI, USA
Why couldn't it have sideshift? I don't follow. Sideshift, fork positioning, a rotator, whatever you could dream of could be used with a forklift mast attached to a 3PT.

What would be the reasoning to choose a flipped around tractor forklift over a Telehandler or pneumatic tire conventional forklift?
Ok, i guess you could put one of the hang on sideshifts on your mast. Most of the 3pt forklift attachments i've seen, you want to be setting the mast down when you lift also. a cat 1 3pt would be pretty shaky.
As far as your other question, telehandler is not even in the same class as a rough terrain forklift. Lot bigger, lot more expensive, harder to store, etc. Pneumatic tire forklifts will still get stuck in a muddy lot. The tractor based probably won't. I used my rough terrain forklift to unstick my tractor this spring. The pneumatic tire forklift will probably cost more than the rough terrain one also. Choose the right tool for the job. All i'm saying. I just unloaded a full bunk of particle board with the rough terrain yesterday. It was just fine.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
Even a 2000lb forklift is massively constructed ,an 8000lb Hyster has the mast pivot off the drive axle housing with massive trunnions.........in comparison a tractor 3pl is puny,and only usable for light farm work like lifting boxes of lettuce etc..
 

DDoug

Diamond
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Location
NW Pa
Even a 2000lb forklift is massively constructed ,an 8000lb Hyster has the mast pivot off the drive axle housing with massive trunnions.........in comparison a tractor 3pl is puny,and only usable for light farm work like lifting boxes of lettuce etc..
But.....the forklift has a really, really hard time running a brushog.....:D
 








 
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