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Sodick AG600L Short circuits

nlancaster

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
So I am having a new problem and Sodick support has been less then responsive.

One of our machines, whenever I wire cut a small hole, >.150 I get short circuit errors on the C003 pass.

I never see the "ST" alert on the display that would indicate a short circuit.

C001 and C002 work fine, and if I keep retrying the C003 it will eventually get past it and finish the other 2-3 passes without issues.

This started recently, and my other machine runs the same program without issues.

Anything you guys can think of that would cause this.
 

JZ.

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Location
pa usa
So I am having a new problem and Sodick support has been less then responsive.

One of our machines, whenever I wire cut a small hole, >.150 I get short circuit errors on the C003 pass.

I never see the "ST" alert on the display that would indicate a short circuit.

C001 and C002 work fine, and if I keep retrying the C003 it will eventually get past it and finish the other 2-3 passes without issues.

This started recently, and my other machine runs the same program without issues.

Anything you guys can think of that would cause this.


How thick is your workpiece?

I would adjust the first 2 offsets, you might be leaving just a tad extra stock for the 3rd pass to cut efficiently. You could adjust or SV as well or just slow the cut down to see if it improves. Usually if it is bouncing on the 3rd pass its a stock issue.
 

nlancaster

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
.500 - .750 depending on the part. And the C003 3rd pass does complete part of the cut before the error starts. But when the error starts if you keep telling it to move on it will error at the same place.

I checekd the hell out of the upper and lower heads and found ZERO debris that might be causing a short.
 

JZ.

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Location
pa usa
.500 - .750 depending on the part. And the C003 3rd pass does complete part of the cut before the error starts. But when the error starts if you keep telling it to move on it will error at the same place.

I checekd the hell out of the upper and lower heads and found ZERO debris that might be causing a short.

Does it alarm out close to where you start the hole? Could be from the start of the cut if so....Is your flushing effected by the part at all while cutting?
 

nlancaster

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
It is an Open flushing condition, down in the bottom of a large countersink.

The error happens on one part where the cut starts.

The other "hole" was actually in the middle of the slot, the error happens when it approaches the other edge of the slot after cutting the first edge.
 

JZ.

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Location
pa usa
It is an Open flushing condition, down in the bottom of a large countersink.

The error happens on one part where the cut starts.

The other "hole" was actually in the middle of the slot, the error happens when it approaches the other edge of the slot after cutting the first edge.

I would try adjusting your entry and exit (arc on and off) if it craps out around where you start and finish. If you have a lot of flushing it could be pushing the wire away when you start leaving a little ridge.

As far as the hole in the slot....What size is the slot? Is the hole centered in it? If the hole and slot are close in size, are the slot walls tangent with the hole, maybe the slot walls are off.
 

nlancaster

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
jz814

figured it out, now I need to ask Sodick why its an issue.

The conditions I was using included a QAIC line which is advanced corner control in the Sodick controllers.

I noticed that on every pass when the wire entered the lead out arc it slowed down the cut.

Checked a bunch of our older programs and they did not have QAIC lines in them at all.

Removed the QAIC line from my recent program and now it cuts without issues....

Now I have to find out why the corner control isn't working.
 

JZ.

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Location
pa usa
jz814

figured it out, now I need to ask Sodick why its an issue.

The conditions I was using included a QAIC line which is advanced corner control in the Sodick controllers.

I noticed that on every pass when the wire entered the lead out arc it slowed down the cut.

Checked a bunch of our older programs and they did not have QAIC lines in them at all.

Removed the QAIC line from my recent program and now it cuts without issues....

Now I have to find out why the corner control isn't working.

Yeah that is odd, I alwyas leave mine on, soooo idk if that's a good or bad thing, but I haven't had any issues. Glad you got burning better though. Let me know what they say about it.
 

nlancaster

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
According to Sodick Applications Engineer, QAIC can cause problems on round holes.

And also that very few customers actually use QAIC.

Looking at my older programs from previous programmers and ones I have created, they do not have QAIC enabled.

Go figure.
 

JZ.

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Location
pa usa
According to Sodick Applications Engineer, QAIC can cause problems on round holes.

And also that very few customers actually use QAIC.

Looking at my older programs from previous programmers and ones I have created, they do not have QAIC enabled.

Go figure.

Did they say what problems it can cause, or why?

It's on both of my machines, I've always seen it in my Conditions header, and on the Search Conditions page. Maybe it was just set when the machines were installed and we didn't know any different.
 

Shane030173

Aluminum
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
PA
That's very strange that Sodick would say not to use corner control. I can see on round holes but not shapes. You wont have true corners. The QAIC slows the machine down to allow the middle part of the wire to catch up to the top and bottom. Then slowly increases speed and power as it moves from the corner. On your entry and exit are you using a position on / off or radius on / off. There could be a very small tit on your on / off location. C003 doesn't have the power to burn through it causing it to short out.
 

JZ.

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Location
pa usa
I see in Settings, Page User3 you can set AIC MAX R. Both of my machines are set at .01968. So as far as it effecting a round hole, if you are arcing on and off at a smaller radius than the MAX setting, is that where an issue could possibly occur? I have seen a similar issue nlancaster originally posted about on smaller holes when the entry and exit R are smaller than .020.
 

nlancaster

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
So mine both have that AIC MAX R set to the same .01968. The lead in and lead out arc radius in mastercam in .020.

But on closer inspection that means it generates arc tool paths that are much smaller at only about .015 inches.

So that probably means the AIC setting was working and causing my problem.

I will have to experiment with the arc diameter and leave QAIC settings in my code to see what happens if the code arc is bigger then .01968 and see what happens.

As far as why the applications engineer told me not to use it.... no idea. He said that most people are not using it.

I will say we get very sharp inside corners on the parts we make, even when the code doesn't have AIC enabled.
 

JZ.

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Location
pa usa
So mine both have that AIC MAX R set to the same .01968. The lead in and lead out arc radius in mastercam in .020.

But on closer inspection that means it generates arc tool paths that are much smaller at only about .015 inches.

So that probably means the AIC setting was working and causing my problem.

I will have to experiment with the arc diameter and leave QAIC settings in my code to see what happens if the code arc is bigger then .01968 and see what happens.

As far as why the applications engineer told me not to use it.... no idea. He said that most people are not using it.

I will say we get very sharp inside corners on the parts we make, even when the code doesn't have AIC enabled.

I messed around over the weekend and burnt several holes with AIC on and off. Def saw a difference on the point of entry and exit. I never had much of a witness line with AIC on, but with it off, you can barley notice where it starts, which is something that has always bugged me from time to time on taller parts. Other than that, no effect on hole size or anything like that.
 

nlancaster

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
jz814, yes i have noticed the enterane/exit point on holes in the past, it will be interesting to see if it helps once I change the arc size in the gcode for the lead in/out.
 

Shane030173

Aluminum
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
PA
All of our machines AIC max R are set to .036". That was the recommendation from Sodick applications.
 

nlancaster

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
One of our machines had the software replaced from downloads direct from sodick, after the computer inside failed and had to be replaced.

It defaulted to .01968, which is .5mm aprox.

I think we still would have had the false short circuit messages with the larger radius, as the leadout arc is around .015 in size.

Machines have been running non-stop so no chance to experiment with the code yet.
 

CCCWIRE

Plastic
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
2007aq300l aic

One of our machines had the software replaced from downloads direct from sodick, after the computer inside failed and had to be replaced.

It defaulted to .01968, which is .5mm aprox.

I think we still would have had the false short circuit messages with the larger radius, as the leadout arc is around .015 in size.

Machines have been running non-stop so no chance to experiment with the code yet.

Hello,
2007 AQ300L AIC does not appear to work on C1 rough pass.
Am I correct in saying it is for rough pass only and active with T84 high flush?
Can i get a program example? What triggers the AIC do you have to have a R letter in program or is it fine with G02 / G03 and IJ?

Thanks for your time,
Clint
 

JZ.

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Location
pa usa
Hello,
2007 AQ300L AIC does not appear to work on C1 rough pass.
Am I correct in saying it is for rough pass only and active with T84 high flush?
Can i get a program example? What triggers the AIC do you have to have a R letter in program or is it fine with G02 / G03 and IJ?

Thanks for your time,
Clint



hey Clint,
When you select your CONDITIONS you should see the option for AIC Output, you select that and it should put it right in your header for the program. I've highlighted the line in which it shows up in my header. There are parameters for AIC, but I don't recommend changing anything until you talk to Sodick Applications if your still have a problem.

From what I know AIC if used, it is utilized through all conditions in the program.


( VER : 3.01A Sodick Database Sodick_ACR2_2.3[01] );
( Search Data : Water,HAYABUSA d0.0098,Punch,Close,Steel,3.937inch,E=0,2.6umRz,13.6uinchRa,5times,0.00000 );
( Precision : 1, Condition Pointer : 011E0L, Condition Type : ACR2, AIC Pointer: 01010 );
( ON OFF IP HRP MAO SV V SF C PIK CTRL WK WT WS WP PC SK BSA);
C0000 = 0013 014 2215 000 240 +040.0 8.0 0016 0 000 0000 025 160 080 045 000000 000000 100000;
C0001 = 0015 017 2215 000 244 +021.0 8.0 0010 0 000 0000 025 160 118 063 000000 000000 210000;
C0002 = 0002 011 2215 000 000 +046.0 5.0 1026 0 000 0000 025 180 083 140 000000 000000 300017;
C0003 = 0001 014 2210 000 000 +021.0 2.0 1026 0 000 0000 025 180 083 240 000000 000000 400013;
C0004 = 0015 014 0515 000 000 +005.0 0.0 1038 0 000 0000 025 180 083 240 000000 000000 500013;
C0905 = 0100 000 0001 000 000 +016.0 7.0 5007 0 045 0000 025 180 118 240 000012 000006 600013;
H0000 = + 00000.00039 (Approch) ;
H0001 = + 00000.00965 ( 1ST ) ;
H0002 = + 00000.00650 ( 2ND ) ;
H0003 = + 00000.00571 ( 3RD ) ;
H0004 = + 00000.00528 ( 4TH ) ;
H0005 = + 00000.00516 ( 5TH ) ;
H0999 = + 00000.00000 ( Taper Offset ) ;
( Other Information );
( UP DN ! 1st 2nd~ ! );
(----------------------!------------------!---------------------);
( Dice :0.010 0.010 ! PS : 1.8 0.6 ! Resi.: 50000 );
( Nozzle: 0.24 0.24 ! UP : 6.0 1.5 ! Taper Offset :0.0000 );
( Distance:0.004 0.004 ! DN : 6.0 1.5 ! );
QAIC(2,1,0.00492,012.0,0.00669,0.00276,030.0,0003,0010,20,035);
CUTVEL(0.06,0.06,0.13,0.10,0.24,0.07);
SFCC10070100;
CSP 02560010011;
TT 3.94;
TB 0.00;
;
;
;
 








 
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