Space X

[AJ H]

I do not do production, the majority of my turning is of heat treated tooling components. A cnc lathe is the wrong way to go. What I do need is a OD grinder, now there is where I'll consider cnc technology.

thanks for your input.

A true CNC lathe programmer would blow the doors off of a toolmaker even on one off parts. There is no way to compete with the speed they calculate threads, angles, and radii. It doesn't matter the application CNC will always prevail. It's kinda like John Henry vs. the steam hammer.

 

[Mcgyver]

Their stock may be great but their paying is not .... over 120 days on a net 30 is not my cup of tea.

I just had another huge company tell me it had to be 90 days or they couldn't purchase from us. We did the obligatory theatrics (de rigueur for these high stakes negotiations) and finally resounded with a new quote granting 90 day terms and we increased the price 15%. The whined a bit but agreed to 10%. We usually trying to find out in advance their terms and bake it all into the initial price, but this one surprised us (small firm, but own by a giant)

Its just so friggin funny. They can increase their borrowing via commercial paper at probably 1% per annum which cost 1/4 of a percent of the price for the 90 days. Meanwhile that oh so savvy guy in treasury is busy patting of himself on the back for the great job he is doing reducing working and just has no fucking idea he spent 40x in price what he saved in financing....meanwhile my profit on the job went up 100%.

You are supposed to leverage your strengths. As they can get all the money they want, what he should be doing is paying in 10 and in doing so they'd get far more price competition for their business.

Long payment terms of course stretch cash flow but really, its the best thing to ever happen to our low margin business. All the riff-raff say fuck that, I'm not giving those SOB's 90 days. So there are no other little guys wrecking the market with low prices and there's decent profit left to vendorst. Thank you brain dead mother you know whats .

 

[PDW]

I just had another huge company tell me it had to be 90 days or they couldn't purchase from us. We did the obligatory theatrics (de rigueur for these high stakes negotiations) and finally resounded with a new quote granting 90 day terms and we increased the price 15%. The whined a bit but agreed to 10%. We usually trying to find out in advance their terms and bake it all into the initial price, but this one surprised us (small firm, but own by a giant)

Its just so friggin funny. They can increase their borrowing via commercial paper at probably 1% per annum which cost 1/4 of a percent of the price for the 90 days. Meanwhile that oh so savvy guy in treasury is busy patting of himself on the back for the great job he is doing reducing working and just has no fucking idea he spent 40x in price what he saved in financing....meanwhile my profit on the job went up 100%.

You are supposed to leverage your strengths. As they can get all the money they want, what he should be doing is paying in 10 and in doing so they'd get far more price competition for their business.

Long payment terms of course stretch cash flow but really, its the best thing to ever happen to our low margin business. All the riff-raff say fuck that, I'm not giving those SOB's 90 days. So there are no other little guys wrecking the market with low prices and there's decent profit left to vendorst. Thank you brain dead mother you know whats .

Sure - as long as you get paid.

I give Govt bodies long terms because I know from the other side what the payment systems are like when you're up to the mid 5 figures to mid 6 figures. Private companies not so much.

PDW

 

[CarbideBob]

Second day, second month. Accept or go away.
Now float that or not take 30k a month in orders?
Bob

 

[motion guru]

Boeing is NET 120, 100% at customer acceptance of factory run off. This is not for machined parts, but rather for automated tooling / fixtures. Typical project duration is 9-18 months with typical project split 40% materials, 60% labor and project sell prices range from $250k for a small project and well over a million for a large project. In other words, a million dollar PO means that you could wait up to 22 months before you saw your first penny after a successful 18 month project, ship, install cycle. This is typical of the aerospace companies we sell to.

We work with a Washington based Rocket Company and I have had conversations with a number of former Spacex Engineers. They are all glad they escaped the vortex of “angst and dysfunction” (their description) and have found work they love to do working for a company that values their contribution and treats them with respect.

 

[Ziggy2]

Boeing is NET 120, 100% at customer acceptance of factory run off. This is not for machined parts, but rather for automated tooling / fixtures. Typical project duration is 9-18 months with typical project split 40% materials, 60% labor and project sell prices range from $250k for a small project and well over a million for a large project. In other words, a million dollar PO means that you could wait up to 22 months before you saw your first penny after a successful 18 month project, ship, install cycle. This is typical of the aerospace companies we sell to.

We work with a Washington based Rocket Company and I have had conversations with a number of former Spacex Engineers. They are all glad they escaped the vortex of “angst and dysfunction” (their description) and have found work they love to do working for a company that values their contribution and treats them with respect.

Motion,
Do you also have to play the retainage game after install or do you escape that with the 100% acceptance? How long is your expected warranty period?

Just curious in comparison of automotive universe versus aerospace universe.

 

[EmGo]

Long payment terms of course stretch cash flow but really, its the best thing to ever happen to our low margin business.

Of course you're right but I didn't buy machines, tools and materials to be a bank. If I wanted to be a bank I'd go directly into loan sharking or selling drugs. I know I'm naive but when you get a job from a large and supposedly reliable company, they should pay their bills on time.

Best thing I ever did, for my own piece of mind and happpiness, was go C.O.D. For everyone, I did't care who they were. No tickee no washee. It was a huge mental relief.

 

[TommyJo]

I thought this thread was about manufacturing in America and Europe. If you don't mind I'd like to discuss space companies from topic and others. There are some new space manufacturers for a couple of years. And they want to be inspirational to people. I found some projects very interesting. Some promise flights to Mars in some distant future, while others are already trying to take big steps to reduce the cost of removing satellites and collecting garbage from LEO. Thrusters have already been developed that can be restarted in space. Parts of rockets are already being printed on 3D printers. There are so many interesting things happening ...

 

[Trboatworks]

I thought this thread was about manufacturing in America and Europe. If you don't mind I'd like to discuss space companies from topic and others. There are some new space manufacturers for a couple of years. And they want to be inspirational to people. I found some projects very interesting. Some promise flights to Mars in some distant future, while others are already trying to take big steps to reduce the cost of removing satellites and collecting garbage from LEO. Thrusters have already been developed that can be restarted in space. Parts of rockets are already being printed on 3D printers. There are so many interesting things happening ...

Someone commented on being tired of being pestered by visions of the future.
A remarkable statement given that the future is a certainty and it will also certainly be different than today.

I sent SPCE to a friend as a buy as the stock was finishing up a year long consolidation.
I got a thanks for the tip as the stock broke out then a complaint as the traded price is working through a sort of well established pattern of breakout rally and retest of prior resistance.
(Stock tip- never give stock tips..)

I found the company of interest first due to the "vision of the future" as I find it a clear certainty that that future will contain diversified transportation companies which will be global giants as space travel becomes mundane.

But I digress- SPCE as a stock printing tradable price progression.

A chart for SPCE:

https://invst.ly/t96ys



Edit- has our op bowed out of participation with PM?

 

[michiganbuck]

Unity's engine failed to ignite, .. that seems a simple thing, and it landed safely so a good show IMHO. I knew a race car that failed an important drag race because a cotter pin was not flared in the fuel linkage. SPCE dropped 20% so possible a good time to buy, But SPCE"s space ship two blew up.
With a good/great flight SPCE likely to go to $35 or so.

 

[michiganbuck]

OT
Don't run with this because of being off-topic. Don't even answer. Except some regular PM guys might say "go for it."
tool guys may know a lot about companies and so have some decent opinions about stocks.
If we could have stocks discussions with not politics and name-calling that might be a good thread.

Limit each stock pick to a certain number of thoughts so to avoid stupid constant pumping and bashing.

Moderatio could give a warning..this thread soon to be halted because of too much being stupid.

if there is an interest I or somebody can start the thread.

 

[Trboatworks]

Stock forums can become battlegrounds of fear mongering against the counter trade.
Good ones are civil affairs where everyone has a common goal of being on the right side of trade and there is a nice sort of camaraderie about things.

I am actively trading now and have been most of this year so for one would provide input in such a thread.

The economic trajectory also is in general a rich area of discussion but has its own weaknesses as a topic of conversation as the attendant politics aspects poison most threads...
But.. As shop owners, investment of reserves and the economic climate are highly relevant topics for us all.

 

[DDoug]

Stock forums can become battlegrounds of fear mongering against the counter trade.
Good ones are civil affairs where everyone has a common goal of being on the right side of trade and there is a nice sort of camaraderie about things.

I am actively trading now and have been most of this year so for one would provide input in such a thread.

The economic trajectory also is in general a rich area of discussion but has its own weaknesses as a topic of conversation as the attendant politics aspects poison most threads...
But.. As shop owners, investment of reserves and the economic climate are highly relevant topics for us all.

More importantly, please post a running ticker under your name with your "totals" meaning
what gains/losses do you currently have ?

 

[EmGo]

Edit- has our op bowed out of participation with PM?

Not enough genuine toolmakers here for him to talk to ....

 

[michiganbuck]

Lockheed Martin is a big player in space devices. behind the scenes are computer companies and all the other devices specifically made for space travel.

Ice cream...Astronaut Ice Cream: Freeze Dried Ice Cream & Fruit by Astronaut Foods

Personal hygiene in space - Canada.ca

 

[Bill D]

Don't forget Tang and velcro

 

[standardparts]

Elon Musk. Richest man in the world as of today.

Is it due to SpaceX or most probably Tesla?

Elon Musk becomes world'''s richest person as wealth tops $185bn - BBC News

 

[empower]

Elon Musk. Richest man in the world as of today.

Is it due to SpaceX or most probably Tesla?

Elon Musk becomes world'''s richest person as wealth tops $185bn - BBC News

mostly due to tesla, but spacex will eventually become a larger part of his wealth once the satellite business goes full steam.

 

[Trboatworks]

Mkt cap for TSLA is $834B just now.

I haven’t checked recently but Musk used to hold 22% of the stock.
Just that holding pretty much covers it.

 

[kustomizingkid]

mostly due to tesla, but spacex will eventually become a larger part of his wealth once the satellite business goes full steam.

They are going to spin starlink off and ipo it... going to be interesting to see how the employees are compensated and then react according to this.