Speedio Alarm - Control Power Shortage

[azander]

Hello all,

I just got my Speedio, 16k, running after moving from an industrial location (3-phase from utility) to a space requiring a phase converter. I have 240v going to a single phase buck to 208v to a PT010.

I'm able to power up the spindle. It ramps up to and can hold 16k without issue however stopping at or over 10k RPM I get an alarm: "SV0500.113 *Spindle servo error(Control power shortage)".

It runs fine between 0-8k, up and down. Again, goes up to 16k without issue, but if it slows from 16k to 12k it'll throw the alarm. 10k to 8k fine, but 10k to 0 throws the alarm.

It seems odd to me. Wouldn't an under voltage issue come into play on starting or ramping up the motor? If this is a re-gen current thing from stopping or slowing and thus overloading the phase converter, wouldn't that be an over voltage alarm?

Should I change the buck to 220V? ... Otherwise the remedy as stated in the manual is the Servo Amplifier. hmmm

 

[Pete Deal]

I’m running on a 30hp rpc and occasionally get a power warning of some sort. Can’t remember the text of it exactly. It’s generally when I’m running two machines at once. I wonder if your converter is marginal capacity?

 

[Finegrain]

What's a "PT010"?

 

[plastikdreams]

What's a "PT010"?

Kinda like pt109

 

[DavidScott]

What size and length are your wire runs? Both single and 3 phase. Is your PP a gen 3? Sorry but I don't know the model designations well enough.

 

[azander]

What size and length are your wire runs? Both single and 3 phase. Is your PP a gen 3? Sorry but I don't know the model designations well enough.

Round figures 50 feet of 3AWG copper on 3phase from converter to machine and 20 feet of 1AWG on single phase side from the panel to the phase converter.

Indeed, the Phase Perfect PT010 is the 10hp (supposedly “the same” as the PT330 which I’m aware other people run).

Seems odd I’m getting a ‘power shortage’ alarm only on a (heavier) spindle deceleration, but acceleration is seemingly fine.

 

[DavidScott]

It's not your wire but I still don't know what generation your PP is. I have both a first and second gen 10hp PP, both bucked down on the single-phase side to 208. Currently running two 30 taper mills on the gen 2, one at a time, with no issues. I have heard of some issues with I think the dc buss on the gen 3 versions of our PPs, which is why I ask. I haven't had any problems so I don't know much, just stuff I have read.

As for the alarm, the power ripples may be causing an alarm you're not quite expecting. A multi-meter with a logger would be handy to see just what your voltages are doing.

Dumb question but low hanging fruit. Are you sure all of your power connections are tight?

 

[azander]

It's not your wire but I still don't know what generation your PP is. I have both a first and second gen 10hp PP, both bucked down on the single-phase side to 208. Currently running two 30 taper mills on the gen 2, one at a time, with no issues. I have heard of some issues with I think the dc buss on the gen 3 versions of our PPs, which is why I ask. I haven't had any problems so I don't know much, just stuff I have read.

As for the alarm, the power ripples may be causing an alarm you're not quite expecting. A multi-meter with a logger would be handy to see just what your voltages are doing.

Dumb question but low hanging fruit. Are you sure all of your power connections are tight?

Thanks for the feedback.

It's the latest gen Phase Perfect. I think you're right about the DC Buss issue. The PP is apparently 'upgrade-able' to run the 20hp spec board - this might be something I have to talk to them about. Perhaps the PP is cutting out due to the regen hence the 'low voltage' seen at the machine... ?

I gather it's safe to back burner the 'servo amplifier' fault as mentioned in the manual for now.

 

[norb]

Check your incoming power into the building. Voltage can vary especially in the summer when the weather gets hot and all the air conditioners are on. Just because it is supposed to be 240V does not necessarily mean that is is.

 

[azander]

Check your incoming power into the building. Voltage can vary especially in the summer when the weather gets hot and all the air conditioners are on. Just because it is supposed to be 240V does not necessarily mean that is is.

I will, but the Phase Perfect display is showing 207-208V for each leg. I'd assume that's correct.

 

[machfab]

We used a PT010 for about 6 months on our S700 but had many power alarms. Ended up just installing a 20hp RPC and problem went away.

 

[DavidScott]

I am not having any problems with an R650, but it has only been a few days so far. My money is on the PP being the problem so I would be calling them first thing Monday to see what they say.

 

[machfab]

I am not having any problems with an R650, but it has only been a few days so far. My money is on the PP being the problem so I would be calling them first thing Monday to see what they say.

We also have an R650 on a PT030 that doesn’t give any trouble. One thing you might can try is to put the PT010 in “elevator” mode which is more constant on power. We tried it but the PT010 could not keep up. After we switched to a rotary, we had conversations with Phase Technologies and they said they could put a larger buss in our unit but we had already sold it. The tool change on the S700 is completely different than the R650 from a power perspective

 

[azander]

We also have an R650 on a PT030 that doesn’t give any trouble. One thing you might can try is to put the PT010 in “elevator” mode which is more constant on power. We tried it but the PT010 could not keep up. After we switched to a rotary, we had conversations with Phase Technologies and they said they could put a larger buss in our unit but we had already sold it. The tool change on the S700 is completely different than the R650 from a power perspective

I'll try the elevator mode - the PP manual states it's specifically for starting motors but maybe it holds the power better in all situations. So far I have no issues starting the spindle, only an issue on deceleration or stopping.

 

[Pete Deal]

We also have an R650 on a PT030 that doesn’t give any trouble. One thing you might can try is to put the PT010 in “elevator” mode which is more constant on power. We tried it but the PT010 could not keep up. After we switched to a rotary, we had conversations with Phase Technologies and they said they could put a larger buss in our unit but we had already sold it. The tool change on the S700 is completely different than the R650 from a power perspective

I suspect that tool changing doesn't load it up much at all in either case. With spindle ramping the current spikes to about 120amps briefly with the 16k spindle.

 

[Philabuster]

Hello all,

I just got my Speedio, 16k, running after moving from an industrial location (3-phase from utility) to a space requiring a phase converter. I have 240v going to a single phase buck to 208v to a PT010.

The Phase Perfect is limited by the amperage it can produce. By cutting the input voltage to the PP, you are effectively reducing the total wattage on the output side. You would get more available wattage out of the PP if you fed it with 240 volts on the input and then bucked the 3 phase output voltage going to the Speedio.

 

[Philabuster]

Not sure if I am doing the math correctly, but I believe you would get an additional 15% more output wattage out of the Phase Perfect by running it on 240 volts vs 208 volts.

 

[Vancbiker]

You are correct. That extra power is how I get away with running my Mori on single phase 240V without an RPC or Phase Perfect.

 

[azander]

After switching to "elevator mode", I'm getting a "Hall Sense High" fault code at the phase converter on every spindle stoppage at or above 12K RPM. Up to 10K is fine. I even got the 20HP spec DC Bus from Phase Perfect with the same exact fault condition. Naturally the fault resets the phase converter and cuts power to the machine (probably not great for it). ... Has anyone ever encountered this with their Speedio?

 

[Comatose]

The speedios regen a LOT of current when they stop. Probably more than the phase perfect can dissipate. You can probably slow down the spindle accel/decel to make the problem go away, at a cost of some cycle time.