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Speedio vs Robodrill to upgrade existing VMC

Joined
May 26, 2004
Location
Paradise, Ca
My best guess is they are probably a year away from that. They just upgraded the S machines from X1 to X2 after 6 years...
I hope D00 falls on its face and never happens, or stays on option.

Just like Haas... Take a control that is super easy to use and there are tons of them out there and make wholesale changes. :rolleyes5:

And a touch screen? Really? Did a single shop complain about how the knobs and buttons on the C00 work?

One of the reasons I keep buying Brothers is because they are just like a race car. Everything on them has a purpose. There's no fluff. No stupid graphics or video games or dxf translators or any other marketing bullshit, they are simple and just work all day every day. But now with the touch screen D00 I get this nasty feeling in my gut that the marketing department has taken over.
 

chasing_tenths

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
And a touch screen? Really? Did a single shop complain about how the knobs and buttons on the C00 work?

Long ago I worked for an electronics company. Touchscreens were a big money saver. Buttons that can cycle millions of times reliably cost money. If it already has a screen, adding touch screen isn't a huge jump, so the net is money saved. Not a fan myself.
 

Fal Grunt

Titanium
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Location
Medina OH
The touch screens are a problem for me, because I run oil, typically when I am cycling parts I am wearing gloves. The touch screens don't work with gloves. Additionally, I have my doubts about their longevity getting oil in/on them vs buttons. Maybe it is not a concern.... I don't see a touch screen lasting 10+ years.

Never mind the fact every machine shop I have ever worked in inevitably has scratched screens from wiping the shop dust/grit off the screens. What kind of longevity is a touch screen?

I'd guess now i'll need to buy and replace a "screen protector" for my machining center every year like I do my phone?
 

2outof3

Titanium
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Location
West Coast USA
That could be a possibility, but buying a $16k 4th (plus required subplate, install, etc), then $7k in automation (not sure what all would be on gkoenigs list?) accounts for a lot of time running the machine. Trying to pay that off running 50-150 pc part runs is a hard ROI to justify.

Depending on how much work you are putting through the shop, the fourth axis with two vises on a trunnion would be my suggestion. Do Op10 and then turn over and flip 90 for OP20 to finish six sides in one cycle. If your parts allow vises for work holding, simple set ups and very effective machine utilization.

Example in the video link below.

Brother SPEEDIO W-Series | Yamazen
 

2outof3

Titanium
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Location
West Coast USA
I hope D00 falls on its face and never happens, or stays on option.

Just like Haas... Take a control that is super easy to use and there are tons of them out there and make wholesale changes. :rolleyes5:

And a touch screen? Really? Did a single shop complain about how the knobs and buttons on the C00 work?

One of the reasons I keep buying Brothers is because they are just like a race car. Everything on them has a purpose. There's no fluff. No stupid graphics or video games or dxf translators or any other marketing bullshit, they are simple and just work all day every day. But now with the touch screen D00 I get this nasty feeling in my gut that the marketing department has taken over.

The day in and day out commands like cycle start are still hard buttons on the D-00. You have the keyboard still but when driving in the screens, you will have to use the touchscreen.Picture1.jpg
 

Vancbiker

Diamond
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Location
Vancouver, WA. USA
The touch screens are a problem for me, because I run oil, typically when I am cycling parts I am wearing gloves. The touch screens don't work with gloves. Additionally, I have my doubts about their longevity getting oil in/on them vs buttons. Maybe it is not a concern.... I don't see a touch screen lasting 10+ years.

Never mind the fact every machine shop I have ever worked in inevitably has scratched screens from wiping the shop dust/grit off the screens. What kind of longevity is a touch screen?……..

The Mitsubishi touch screen on my Mori is 27 years old and still ok. That said, I do try to dry my hand before using it and I am using coolant rather than oil. Mostly because I’m pretty sure that at 27 years old, the gasket around the edges may not be in great shape.

Hopefully a Brother touchscreen is as durable.

Using the touchscreen is fine, just something you get used to. Then it’s pretty nice.
 

GiroDyno

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Location
PNW
Depending on how much work you are putting through the shop, the fourth axis with two vises on a trunnion would be my suggestion. Do Op10 and then turn over and flip 90 for OP20 to finish six sides in one cycle. If your parts allow vises for work holding, simple set ups and very effective machine utilization.

Example in the video link below.

Brother SPEEDIO W-Series | Yamazen

What's with the high zoot blue tap holder? I've seen those in a few demos.
Just a regular tap collet or is it some kind of floating holder? Wouldn't think a "drill & tap center" would need to cheat like that :D...

Edit...Just saw the W1000 is technically a "compact machining center"
 

2outof3

Titanium
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Location
West Coast USA
What's with the high zoot blue tap holder? I've seen those in a few demos.
Just a regular tap collet or is it some kind of floating holder? Wouldn't think a "drill & tap center" would need to cheat like that :D...

Edit...Just saw the W1000 is technically a "compact machining center"
Most likely a centering tap holder used in casting works. Has float in the X/Y plane to adjust for casting variance.
 

Fal Grunt

Titanium
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Location
Medina OH
Blech! I miss my horse and carriage! :codger:

Why miss it? There are tens of thousands of people around me that horse and carriage is still their predominant form of transportation.

I don't rely on the hegemony of the masses to tell me what is "best". Just because it is new, doesn't mean it is an improvement.
 

gkoenig

Titanium
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Location
Portland, OR
I hope D00 falls on its face and never happens, or stays on option.

Just like Haas... Take a control that is super easy to use and there are tons of them out there and make wholesale changes. :rolleyes5:

And a touch screen? Really? Did a single shop complain about how the knobs and buttons on the C00 work?

One of the reasons I keep buying Brothers is because they are just like a race car. Everything on them has a purpose. There's no fluff. No stupid graphics or video games or dxf translators or any other marketing bullshit, they are simple and just work all day every day. But now with the touch screen D00 I get this nasty feeling in my gut that the marketing department has taken over.

The D-00 is the future. It would be insane for Brother to support 2 control options going forward. You are also really indexing on the looks/UI while ignoring a bunch of other stuff.

1- The UI you know is still right there. Aside from the soft menu becoming part of the screen, the hardware buttons are 1:1 identical with the C-00. You can basically do everything you can on a Speedio without ever touching the screen.

2- The touch screen interface puts way more information in front of the user, and makes some very interesting applications possible. Like really dead-simple graphical probing control, or operator interfaces for production outfits who need to put reference information and track part measurements.

3- Most importantly, the D-00 UI is like 10% of what is under the hood. New servos, drives, and encoders with something like 4x the resolution of the C-00 (now on-par with Robodrill ADV models), all of which is going to make better High Accuracy performance. Faster processing speeds. Dramatically improved simultaneous motion performance. Real-time high resolution tool load monitoring. Much improved inverse time feed. A real MDI!

The move from the C-00 to D-00 is going to be on-par with the move from the S2DN class of machines to the Speedio.

If you geek out on these things and know the strengths and weaknesses of the C-00, Brother has basically gone though and fixed every complaint someone like me would have. And it is obvious that, just like the Robodrills, the D-00 is really a multi-axis control in preparation for something the rumormill says is coming out at IMTS.
 

gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
I hope D00 falls on its face and never happens, or stays on option.

Just like Haas... Take a control that is super easy to use and there are tons of them out there and make wholesale changes. :rolleyes5:

And a touch screen? Really? Did a single shop complain about how the knobs and buttons on the C00 work?

One of the reasons I keep buying Brothers is because they are just like a race car. Everything on them has a purpose. There's no fluff. No stupid graphics or video games or dxf translators or any other marketing bullshit, they are simple and just work all day every day. But now with the touch screen D00 I get this nasty feeling in my gut that the marketing department has taken over.

The backend of the Speedio is pure magic. I am convinced there are magic Japanese pixies running the thing and they come out and smoke cigarettes when I go home.

The front end?
The UI?

Fucking awful

It is like someone who mythologizes the wonders of 1988 DOS controlled the design. Enter one menu to manipulate files, back out two steps and enter another[visually identical] menu to actually edit files.

Now mind you I learned this control while simultaneously learning G code after 30 years of programing exclusively heidenhain, so that added a layer to my frustration.

In the mid 1980s, that is 35 years ago, Heidenhain built controls that when you hit enter in the last character of a program line, you had perfect executable code. Program gets munged in communication, control parses it on the way in and you will get the error 'wrong program data' before getting anywhere near pushing the cycle start button.

No helical threading cycle?

No circular pocket cycle?

Come on.


I could go on but look, I don't regret getting the machine for a nanosecond. But pretending that the UI on the control is something to be happy about?

Get real.

Perhaps when you guys come from a 1979 Fanuc control it seems like the cats meow, but coming from a machine that was designed as if, you know, actual humans will interface with it, it comes up short.
While ease of use has little to do with efficiency of program run, it helps prevent mistakes.
Mistakes cost money
Mistakes cause crashes and downtime.


It is a truly great machine, but the things that will make it better are an improved operator interface, and that sounds like the direction they are going.
 

barbter

Diamond
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
On Tour...
One creates their "own" cycles using the macro function. Then you are not stuck using a cycle that the control builder thinks is best for you.
TBF, the Heidy and Siemens shopturn (and Prototrak) etc, ie any control with cycles, it's nice just having a little adjacent graphic box prompting what it is, and just enter your value in....
That said, it depends what you're doing IMHO. If you're grammin at the control, get a machine with cycles.
If your parts are CAM, that's different.
 

crossthread82

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
So I've decided on the speedio. I'm waiting for the S500xD1 to be released here in the US. The addition of 1000psi TSC and 28 tools besides the D00 control is a nice bonus. The only thing I'm left to decide on is the spindles. Since I'm going to be getting two machines I'm thinking of getting one 10k HT and one 16k. Does anybody have a 27k speedio? And if so how well would it hog aluminum compared to the 16k spindle?
 

hi-fly-cnc

Plastic
Joined
Jun 13, 2022
So I've decided on the speedio. I'm waiting for the S500xD1 to be released here in the US. The addition of 1000psi TSC and 28 tools besides the D00 control is a nice bonus. The only thing I'm left to decide on is the spindles. Since I'm going to be getting two machines I'm thinking of getting one 10k HT and one 16k. Does anybody have a 27k speedio? And if so how well would it hog aluminum compared to the 16k spindle?
At least the old machine doesn't offer TSC on the 27k spindle...

I would have thought you run the numbers on the tools you want to use? If you are all sub 6mm and never drilling deep holes then the 27k would be super. I think for many use cases the TSC would be more desirable (but costs you potentially 30%+ feed rate Vs by dropping the spindle speed...)

Are you planning on getting probing? 4th axis?

Sounds like a great machine!
 

BROTHERFRANK

Stainless
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Location
SoCal
So I've decided on the speedio. I'm waiting for the S500xD1 to be released here in the US. The addition of 1000psi TSC and 28 tools besides the D00 control is a nice bonus. The only thing I'm left to decide on is the spindles. Since I'm going to be getting two machines I'm thinking of getting one 10k HT and one 16k. Does anybody have a 27k speedio? And if so how well would it hog aluminum compared to the 16k spindle?
S500 is a great choice. The 27K rpm isn't typically brought in on the S500, you would need to special order. S500s are stocked as 10K, 10K High Torque or 16K in USA. The 27K spindle is stocked here only on S700. If you are thinking of CTS then 27K is out as well. 27K spindles can hog aluminum with a 1/2" end mill about the same as 16k spindle. Maximum drill and tap size are lower on 27k than 16k. If you do a lot of chamfering/engraving or run tools smaller than 1/8" in any material frequently, you may appreciate the 27K. No reliability drawbacks with 27K. No special tools (just quality holders) and no balancer required. Only drawbacks with 27K (to some users) are no cts available and smaller drilling/tapping capacity.
 

Fal Grunt

Titanium
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Location
Medina OH
There are a lot of times I wish I had a 27k spindle. I don't run much of any aluminum, but running a 2mm endmill in steel is painfully slow. Even with steel there are jobs that my spindle runs nearly every tool at 16k.
 








 
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