What's new
What's new

Speedio vs Robodrill to upgrade existing VMC

barbter

Diamond
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
On Tour...
There are a lot of times I wish I had a 27k spindle. I don't run much of any aluminum, but running a 2mm endmill in steel is painfully slow. Even with steel there are jobs that my spindle runs nearly every tool at 16k.
If the lots really equal lots, have you looked at an air turbine spindle?
 

Fal Grunt

Titanium
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Location
Medina OH
If the lots really equal lots, have you looked at an air turbine spindle?
Not very much. From what I have seen the cost of multiple air turbine spindles would far exceed the cost of a 27k spindle from Brother. The ones I saw pricing for were around $8k ea. Then add on the cost of a much better quality compressor that can handle that air volume... and I pretty quickly have exceeded the cost of a new spindle.
 

crossthread82

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
Not very much. From what I have seen the cost of multiple air turbine spindles would far exceed the cost of a 27k spindle from Brother. The ones I saw pricing for were around $8k ea. Then add on the cost of a much better quality compressor that can handle that air volume... and I pretty quickly have exceeded the cost of a new spindle.
Not to mention most air spindles have a gauge length of 5-7" and really don't have a lot of power compared to the 27k spindle if you were say slotting with an 1/8 endmill. Though with that route you could have tsc and high spindle speeds. Which really begs the question; why doesn't brother offer tsc with the 27k spindle? Plenty of other manufacture's sell high speed spindle in the 20-30k rpm range with coolant through the spindle.
 

barbter

Diamond
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
On Tour...
Not very much. From what I have seen the cost of multiple air turbine spindles would far exceed the cost of a 27k spindle from Brother. The ones I saw pricing for were around $8k ea. Then add on the cost of a much better quality compressor that can handle that air volume... and I pretty quickly have exceeded the cost of a new spindle.
Oh...I didn't know how many tools you would need this for.
Yes it stacks up fast if you need many, but economical for a couple when I looked into them back in the day
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
Oh come now....

You can buy a die grinder from Central Pneumatics for $50?
C-clamp it onto a plate on the head and drive on!

If you wunna git fancy tho, you could prolly buy a "blank" toolholder, and bore it out and place the grinder guts up inside.

You are stuck with a 1/4" shank tool prolly, but you can likely git tools somewhere with 1/4" shanks?

Trust me, where there's an Ox, there's a work-around!


------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

barbter

Diamond
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
On Tour...
Oh come now....

You can buy a die grinder from Central Pneumatics for $50?
C-clamp it onto a plate on the head and drive on!

If you wunna git fancy tho, you could prolly buy a "blank" toolholder, and bore it out and place the grinder guts up inside.

You are stuck with a 1/4" shank tool prolly, but you can likely git tools somewhere with 1/4" shanks?

Trust me, where there's an Ox, there's a work-around!


------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
#Farmgineering
:D
 

gkoenig

Titanium
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Location
Portland, OR
Not very much. From what I have seen the cost of multiple air turbine spindles would far exceed the cost of a 27k spindle from Brother. The ones I saw pricing for were around $8k ea. Then add on the cost of a much better quality compressor that can handle that air volume... and I pretty quickly have exceeded the cost of a new spindle.

That Peter Stanton guy on YouTube showed a job where he built a right angle head for these and they seemed to work extremely well:
 

LOTT

Hot Rolled
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
So I've decided on the speedio. I'm waiting for the S500xD1 to be released here in the US. The addition of 1000psi TSC and 28 tools besides the D00 control is a nice bonus. The only thing I'm left to decide on is the spindles. Since I'm going to be getting two machines I'm thinking of getting one 10k HT and one 16k. Does anybody have a 27k speedio? And if so how well would it hog aluminum compared to the 16k spindle?
I'd get both in 16K. We have one regular 10K and one 16K, and for us there is no advantage to the 10K, it's just slower. I'm not using any drills or taps big enough to bog down the 16K, so the High Torque would be wasted on us. And it's just an added step of reposting programs with reduced speeds if they need to go from the faster to slower mill.

Our 10K machine was one of the "base" stock models on discount, so zero regrets, but all things being equal the 16K is better. YMMV.
 

crossthread82

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
Does anybody have any opinions on running BBT holders in the 27k spindle? I've heard it mentioned that brother recommends you don't above 15-18k rpm. But that runs in contrast to the literature I got with a quote for a DMG DMP machine, they say that with their 24k spindle you have to run BBT holders above 15k rpm.
 

2outof3

Titanium
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Location
West Coast USA
Does anybody have any opinions on running BBT holders in the 27k spindle? I've heard it mentioned that brother recommends you don't above 15-18k rpm. But that runs in contrast to the literature I got with a quote for a DMG DMP machine, they say that with their 24k spindle you have to run BBT holders above 15k rpm.
Different builders are going to ask for different things. The Brother only cools the spindle housing using air. This of course allows for some thermal growth. When a 30 Taper grows it grows down but also opens a bit. If the tool is BBT it will lose some contact on the taper as the flange stops the tool from moving up inside the taper as the taper is designed to do. That is why toolholder companies like MST will not build BBT for their shrink fit BT holders. They want the best concentricity available. Use BBT on the 27k but as recommended, it is not for the smaller tools at higher speeds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ox

DavidScott

Titanium
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Location
Washington
A little info on BBT as this has become an acute interest for me. On my R650 I measure between .0003" and .0005" of movement when the tool holder is clamped in the spindle with the dual contact holders I have measured. The one non dual contact holder I tried moved .0009" when clamped. The spindle doesn't have to expand much before the taper isn't doing much to hold the holder. Of course how much preload is designed into the spindle and tool holders is a secret, with Big Daishowa the main secret holder/enforcer.
 

crossthread82

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
Different builders are going to ask for different things. The Brother only cools the spindle housing using air. This of course allows for some thermal growth. When a 30 Taper grows it grows down but also opens a bit. If the tool is BBT it will lose some contact on the taper as the flange stops the tool from moving up inside the taper as the taper is designed to do. That is why toolholder companies like MST will not build BBT for their shrink fit BT holders. They want the best concentricity available. Use BBT on the 27k but as recommended, it is not for the smaller tools at higher speeds.
I'm mostly inquiring b/c I'd rather not have to buy two different sets of holders. I'd like to stick to all BBT if I can. Would it be alright to run a BBT holder at 25k for 25-30min? Also I'm not sure if this has been answered somewhere else, but what is Brothers reason for not offering TSC with the 27k spindle?
 

2outof3

Titanium
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Location
West Coast USA
I'm mostly inquiring b/c I'd rather not have to buy two different sets of holders. I'd like to stick to all BBT if I can. Would it be alright to run a BBT holder at 25k for 25-30min? Also I'm not sure if this has been answered somewhere else, but what is Brothers reason for not offering TSC with the 27k spindle?
There is no problem running non BBT holders in a BBT machine. Your small holders don't need to be BBT. In fact not many of the tools would be helped with BBT in a 27k. Face mills, long drills, reamers and such. Maybe your largest side milling holder.
 

crossthread82

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
There is no problem running non BBT holders in a BBT machine. Your small holders don't need to be BBT. In fact not many of the tools would be helped with BBT in a 27k. Face mills, long drills, reamers and such. Maybe your largest side milling holder.
Does anybody have experience running the air spindles from Air Turbine in a speedio? They use an air block behind the spindle casting to allow them to be loaded in the tool magazine. That seems like that might be a better compromise for me. Get a 16k BBT CTSI machine and get one or two 30k or 40k air spindles for the time I need serious rpm. The only thing that concerns me with the air spindles is I'm not sure if they have enough torque to slot say an 1/8 to 3/16 endmill .050" deep in aluminum; which is something that I do quite regularly when ramp contouring heatsink fins.
 

2outof3

Titanium
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Location
West Coast USA
Does anybody have experience running the air spindles from Air Turbine in a speedio? They use an air block behind the spindle casting to allow them to be loaded in the tool magazine. That seems like that might be a better compromise for me. Get a 16k BBT CTSI machine and get one or two 30k or 40k air spindles for the time I need serious rpm. The only thing that concerns me with the air spindles is I'm not sure if they have enough torque to slot say an 1/8 to 3/16 endmill .050" deep in aluminum; which is something that I do quite regularly when ramp contouring heatsink fins.
We have a customer for years has run NSK air motors in their Brothers. They will not slot what you are asking for. If most of your work is under .375 end mills, you will gain with the 27k. If your work is more varied than that, the 16k will get you a great set up. When I started 14 years ago, we did not import the 16K machines but only changed them out in the field. Today, the largest seller for us by far is the 16k. It is a very capable spindle.
 








 
Top