Still going w/ "trash" machines 3 yrs on- a commentary on privilege and work

[Limy Sami]

This guy is not bashing anyone or putting anyone out of Biz. He's just working his ass off, building something from nothing and living his life free. He was feeling proud of himself and wanted to share. Good job !

Well done overflow, couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[geardoc]

It must be. Something about this thread is nagging at me. I don't know why.

To the OP, good for you. You are getting by and even growing while other shops are leaving the area. I hope it continues.

If you intend to continue doing field work and recovery, you need insurance that covers it. If you had lost that dozer in the pond, you'd be paying the customer. I'm really surprised they did not require proof of insurance before even letting you on site. But, if a TD-18 is their main equipment, maybe it doesn't matter.

Us'n hillbillies know about these things called bonds, insurance, and umbrella policies. In addition to our town's 4 redlights, we even have a few of them there insurance agents, and they take them green federal reserve notes from up in Washington from me every 6 months and I'm a financially covered if some fellar sues me, or if Abner Snopes stops by with a can of kerosene and a blow torch, or if I was to have one of them catastrophic failures. Because it sure would suck to lose my 100 acre farm, the pole barn, and the rest of the shit I've paid for. Of course, here in Dogpatch, we still have LLC's too...

You're right- everyone better be bonded and insured.

You should allow nothing on the internet should bug you- you could always be talking to an 84 year old medical marijuana patient from Scranton. I got ticked one time in the Classifieds section- I learned two things- (1) ignore button (2) I don't read classifieds threads.

Take care man !

 

[ewlsey]

I was implying that you have specific insurance for towing and recovery. There is no way your shop liability covers that kind of activity.

 

[chineshop_guy]

geardoc,
very good read, from one hillbilly to another. your business model works for you and thats all that matters.

 

[toolsteel]

Your business practices, rates, terms, etc are all yours to set wherever you decide you want them. It is your business and you are free to run it as you see fit. good luck to you.

 

[chineshop_guy]

geardoc
maybe you could do a post in the members shop and photos section. i find that area of the forum very inspiring as is your story.

 

[scadvice]

When I stated he was an "artist" I actually was, in retrospect ,suggesting that 'we' machinist, who proficient at using manual machines and produce parts for today's customers have a knowledge that is maybe falling by the way side. Looking back at when I started, most shops were manual with only 10% having an some Numerical Control and CNC were still mostly just in the magazines.

To set your shop apart from others, your parts had to be out standing in looks and tolerance. You needed to be an artist. So a good and fast machinist were much in demand... and artist in their trade. Today, they are a different breed all together, as all the CADCAM systems and machine and programming engines, are getting better all the time.

So the old view of a machinist is slowly, but surely, changing to an operator technician on the floor with a manufacturing engineer at the helm. I'm considered a manufacturing engineer, but the big problem I continue see is that most institutions have no clue what the curriculum for one should be, let alone do they realize there are diverse types of manufacturing engineers that cannot be covered with in one title.

So there continues to be a reliance on those of us in this trade who have educated themselves, have the natural abilities, and have adapted to fill those gaps as they evolved. We provide services, not only the company we work for, but our own businesses.

He is an artist and so is, for the most part, most of those on this forum who still practice this craft "old school". The thing to understand about this type of machining service is that it limits your ability to grow with your customer, so at some point during your customer relationship, you will find them encouraging you to update into the 'new world'. If you don't... they will most likely, in part, move on to another shop that has... and you will have to fill the gap left.

 

[geardoc]

I was implying that you have specific insurance for towing and recovery. There is no way your shop liability covers that kind of activity.

Shop liability doesn't, but I have recovery insurance- I asked on here about buying an off road fork lift, and I discovered- I hated the damn things. I learned Milacron and Thermite were right about skid steers- they're useless.

So in the end, I bought a TD-6-62, I had a 420C, and I ended up buying an ex-forestry service first year Deere 450 with bad HLR transmission. I also learned pretty doggone quickly that with the forestry industry as it is, I could make money doing recovery from places that wreckers would not go. Someone had their brother die out in a logging accident, and left a TD-7 out in the woods in Hickory NC. He continued to make payments on the TD-7 for a while, and then let it go back to the bank because he didn't want to go back out there. Before I could do the recovery job for Wells Fargo- I had to have insurance and prove it, also had to provide copies to the land owner. It costs about the same as what mobile home movers pay around here($10k). It's worth it though- people do extremely stupid things with skidders, dozers, trackloaders, and trucks. One local company charges $3k to bring out a mid-side(International S-1854) wrecker to pull out tractors and skid steers. I can charge a lot less, do more volume, and pick up the repair work. Plus, you earn favors. Edit: You also get to learn some really interesting and useful things: I can't tell you how many times the things I learned about spars and yarders and cable rigging have helped me to rig and move machines, machine tools, and even trees.

You're talking to someone who was selling a Camry to a kid who lived 30 minutes down the road from me. I told him to bring a tow dolly. He showed up with his buddy and no tow dolly, no tag for the Camry, and the Camry was still in my name. I told him to either go get the tow dolly or the sale was off. $2000 for an old Camry is jackshit when the little fool drives like he does, and could wreck, hit, blow up and abandon, or otherwise cause property damage. In his pea brain I was cutting my own throat, as $2000 was a lot of money to him.

$2000 for an 18 year Camry is nice, but not when you can get your ass sued in a heartbeat these days.

 

[ewlsey]

I can't believe there are still TD machines in serious use. The newest one in the world has to be 45 years old.

My dad bought a TD-9 with a Hough loader when I was about 10 years old. We dug a pond with it and used to clear fence rows. It finally got where we could not keep the tracks on and we scrapped it. I think it was a 1953. You started the motor on gas and then switched to diesel when it was warmed up. It also had its own grease pump on wheels for the undercarriage.

 

[wgnrr1]

Great story. I can relate totally. I will be 32 in 2 weeks, been at this 2 years now. I have pissed off every large shop owner around, and I work hand in hand with the one and two man shops. I do whatever it takes to get the job done. I even did a 72 hour day. That one job has landed me a lot more work and respect. My vendors see the potential I have and are referring people to me.

BUT...

You also need to take time for yourself! I am getting burnt out. 2 years here of doing everything for everyone else, and nothing for me. I need a vacation. Last weekend I spent 30 hours building the track for my sawmill. That was tiring but rewarding. Got up Monday morning with a new found energy.

We are all pulling for you. Keep up the good work, but also relax. Life is too short to work it away.

Josh

 

[metlmunchr]

I can't believe there are still TD machines in serious use. The newest one in the world has to be 45 years old.

TD series dozers are still being manufactured. IH sold the line to Dresser in the mid 80's. Dresser made them for a number of years. Eventually the line was sold off to a Chinese company who manufactures them in Poland. They're sold in the US under the name Dressta. Don't know anything about the current machines or their durability.

We had one of those old gear drive gas/diesel jobs with an add-on front end loader back in the late 60's. IIRC it was a TD-15. That damn thing would work you to death as compared to a more modern machine. The worst thing about it was the fact that you sat low in the seat, and the high hood and loader arms worked together such that you couldn't see what you were doing for crap. Dad bought a new TD-15 and a new IH 175 loader in the mid 70's, and you could run that 175 for 8 hours with less effort than it took to run the old TD-15 loader for half an hour. Pedal steering, power shift, and some visibility was a wonderful combination

 

[Mike Folks]

Plan for the Future but Live each Day as if it were your Last, for one day it will be. Live Life Bold, Strong, Fearless, Happy, Thankful & at Peace.

And:

“Time is a companion that goes with us on a journey. It reminds us to cherish each moment, because it will never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we have lived.” – Captain Picard

 

[ewlsey]

TD series dozers are still being manufactured. IH sold the line to Dresser in the mid 80's. Dresser made them for a number of years. Eventually the line was sold off to a Chinese company who manufactures them in Poland. They're sold in the US under the name Dressta. Don't know anything about the current machines or their durability.

We had one of those old gear drive gas/diesel jobs with an add-on front end loader back in the late 60's. IIRC it was a TD-15. That damn thing would work you to death as compared to a more modern machine. The worst thing about it was the fact that you sat low in the seat, and the high hood and loader arms worked together such that you couldn't see what you were doing for crap. Dad bought a new TD-15 and a new IH 175 loader in the mid 70's, and you could run that 175 for 8 hours with less effort than it took to run the old TD-15 loader for half an hour. Pedal steering, power shift, and some visibility was a wonderful combination

I didn't know that. I thought the Dresser stuff got rolled into Komatsu. I know the Dresser plant here in Peoria is Komatsu now.

Yes, ergonomics was the last thought for the TD dozers. It's like driving a Bowflex. Hand throttle. Hand main clutch. Hand steering clutches. Foot brakes. So, to go forward and turn left, you pull the hand throttle, push the hand clutch, pull the left steering clutch and push the left steering brake. No power anything.

If they had a reverser, they would be much more handy. Also, IH used low pressure/high volume hydraulics. That's great until a hose blows. 50 gallons of hydraulic oil is gone before you can dump the clutch.

 

[chineshop_guy]

@ scadvice, a friend of mine used to have a joke. he said the people down in eastern kentucky wer all artist, i looked at him perplexed, he said yeah their all drawin checks.
i know thats just wrong

 

[ihbuilder]

TD series dozers are still being manufactured. IH sold the line to Dresser in the mid 80's. Dresser made them for a number of years. Eventually the line was sold off to a Chinese company who manufactures them in Poland. They're sold in the US under the name Dressta. Don't know anything about the current machines or their durability.

We had one of those old gear drive gas/diesel jobs with an add-on front end loader back in the late 60's. IIRC it was a TD-15. That damn thing would work you to death as compared to a more modern machine. The worst thing about it was the fact that you sat low in the seat, and the high hood and loader arms worked together such that you couldn't see what you were doing for crap. Dad bought a new TD-15 and a new IH 175 loader in the mid 70's, and you could run that 175 for 8 hours with less effort than it took to run the old TD-15 loader for half an hour. Pedal steering, power shift, and some visibility was a wonderful combination

We still ran our pre cummins dressers up till I got out of it in 2012 . Dad is still running 83 TD7E and 86 100E . I play with the TD8E here . The TD12 and 175 got sold off when the housing market took a shyt . They're the best I've ever operated .

geardoc , good story Reading threads like these give me the inspiration to keep goin .

 

[Limy Sami]

Your business practices, rates, terms, etc are all yours to set wherever you decide you want them. It is your business and you are free to run it as you see fit. good luck to you.

How true! in a given set of circumstances, we all do what we have to keep a roof over our heads, food on the table and a fire in the grate, as long as it's legal and doesn't cause offence, it is nobody else's business. Just because what one guy does is not to your liking or ability, is no reason to deride it.

Or put another way - It's no use to man or beast making pink widgets when everyone want's blue.

 

[adama]

BUT...

You also need to take time for yourself! I am getting burnt out. 2 years here of doing everything for everyone else, and nothing for me. I need a vacation. Last weekend I spent 30 hours building the track for my sawmill. That was tiring but rewarding. Got up Monday morning with a new found energy.

We are all pulling for you. Keep up the good work, but also relax. Life is too short to work it away.

Josh

I second that. Im in my 8th year self employed. This summer im building my conservatory and only doing production critical jobs till august. All customers got a email spelling it out clearly at a sutable level of wording :-) There comes a time to make money and a time to spend some.

Just like you i make a living chargeing a sustainable price and also relying on word of mouth in the some what niche areas i serve to keep the work flowing. Give it a couple more years and you will soon realise the merit in being a little more select customer wise (am not saying be rude, just you don't have to roll over too easy :-) Playing in the mud is only fun whilst your fit, luging heavy shit around will take a toll on you sooner rather than later so take care of that body as it will catch up with you. Found that out the hard way, once you get into your thirtys pains don't go away in a few hours. Stuff a knee up badly and it can drag you down for a year or 2!!

Equally with time you will have some new big shops to compete with. Chances are they go the same way. But some times they can be a interesting opening to use for a bit, either as a source of odd work or a source of materials. Key thing is not making enemys, but friends. I use to joke that the only other shop in town was my competition, to a degree they are, but we both serve such totaly diffrent customers its a it akin to opening a fast food joint beside a 5 star dinning experience :-) Yep its the same industry but neithers any issue to the other. Both can be very good at what they do with out affecting the other.

 

[Groovejivey]

@ scadvice, a friend of mine used to have a joke. he said the people down in eastern kentucky wer all artist, i looked at him perplexed, he said yeah their all drawin checks.
i know thats just wrong

We've got a lot of "artists" down here in Somerset, KY, as well, lol...

 

[geardoc]

I can't believe there are still TD machines in serious use. The newest one in the world has to be 45 years old.

My dad bought a TD-9 with a Hough loader when I was about 10 years old. We dug a pond with it and used to clear fence rows. It finally got where we could not keep the tracks on and we scrapped it. I think it was a 1953. You started the motor on gas and then switched to diesel when it was warmed up. It also had its own grease pump on wheels for the undercarriage.

My TD-6-62 is 45 years old-it is one of the last 16 built by serial number. The 45 years is 45 years, sort of- it didn't leave a dealer until the 70's so it's been in use for 30 some years. And IHC was really weird about their builds, if they had the parts, they'd throw a machine together.

The TD-18 I pulled out of the woods and modified a bullgear for did end up scrapped. The guy got caught sticking a piece of his anatomy where he shouldn't have been sticking it, and rather than sell it- I reallly, really, wanted it- he scrapped it to get cash to pay for a divorce attorney. It has a similar engine to my TD-6-62.

There are TD-series machines made on into the 70's and 80's and 90's- they share some strange similarities when you get deep, deep into them. That TD-7 is only 20 some years old, by the date it left the dealer.

My grandpa worked an original series TD-6 with a Hough loader for the local cattle baron back in the 50's. It had a Mast type attachment like the H30 series had, and you could take it off, and put on a DROTT bucket.

Back then, the cattle baron had 25 acres of land over near the Tellico Plains Forest and the Indian Boundary Forest- the same area that they used to go rock climbing at with Jeeps. The 25 acres wasn't fenced, so every fall, they had a cattle drive to Tellico, and the cows ate on the Federal government's dime.

By spring, the Mountain laurel and honey suckle and multiflora rose made it impossible to go through a lot of areas, so the Drott ate natures living fence and large scrape blade attachment that used the hydraulic ripper mounting would make a road. An old Ford BB and a Massey Harris. They used English Shepherds and Collies and the vehicles to drive them back up Davis Creek, to Hanging Dog, back down to the Baron's warehouse and gas station(he was the gas distributor for the region) to be hauled for slaughter.

By the late 50's, Cattle Baron got ticked at my grandfather because my grandfather had bought his own land- like 1/100 of what cattle baron owned.

The last straw was when the Ford BB was over loaded with fuel oil on the left frame rail cracked a foot or so near the spring mount. Grandpa told Baron not to make a run with it, it would do further damage.

He refused to listen. So they made the fuel run, grandpa was working with breaking a draft horse, and when it came back, the right side cracked, cracked again at the right side leaf spring mount, and the left side where it had been a crack was just tore in two. The drive shaft probably kept the old truck together.

Cattle Baron told Grandpa to fix it. They had a GE Generator Motor Welder, and Cattle Baron hands grandpa a handful of what the story goes were coat hangers. Granpa apparently had enough, so he thanked him for the job through the later years of the depression, and bid him adieu.

In 1959 he moved his family across the county to the 100 acres he bought, and he laid the block shop and block garage by him and my 10 year old dad.

He had beef cattle and trellis tomatoes and burly leaf tobacco. In the early part of the depression he made films to teach farming for UGA, and he met the Del Monte people then. Chances are that if someone ate an Early Girl tomato that was sold by Del Monte in the Greenville-Asheville-Knoxville-Chattanooga area in the 60's and 70's. He actually bootlegged tobacco because he thought the allotment system(government ordained franchise) was communist- he met Sam Ervin once and told him so. Finally, they would no longer sell his tobacco and he had to get an allotment and buy others allotments to grow it and be able to sell it in the warehouses. In bad years, they'd send out checks as part of the subsidy. He'd go to the ASCS office and return the check.

He was a very independent person, and he kept working his tomatoes in his garden and wanted to help put up hay, right until the day he had to be taken to the hospital for hospice care for his colon cancer and Parkinsons.

Sorry- trip down memory lane.

 

[geardoc]

We've got a lot of "artists" down here in Somerset, KY, as well, lol...

I have three things, actually five, that are the cause of me likely dying fairly young.

Those three things are physical, and two are I guess "psych".

I was basically encouraged by 4 different doctors when I quit the college business to apply for disability.

My grandpa had colon cancer, liver cancer, and Parkinsons and he worked around the farm up until 8 days before he died in a hospital. My dad has Parkinsons and has had prostate cancer and he works around the farm the best he can in his seed beds and garden.

When the doctor suggested Prozac and Zanax and me applying for disability- I wanted to knock the ever-loving shit out of him.

I don't know how many people here in NC, TN, GA, AL, KY, SC, VA, etc- claim to hear God, demons, Ronald Reagan, and space aliens talking to them and take Zanax by the bottle along with a case of beer- they collect disability. They will only work under the table, and there are generations and generations of people doing this. I know a family in TN, the great grandpa came back from WW2 with legit PTSD. The rest of the family copied the symptoms over the generations, claimed to have auditory and visual hallucinations, would get into fights just to fight and claim to be suicidal etc. The youngest quit school at 17, walked into a local hospital, pulled out something of his anatomy out of his pants at the nurse's station, told her he wanted to hurt himself and if he could find him- kill a relative. He laid his pocket knife with blade open on the counter, then went, sat down, and held that piece of anatomy. Orderlies detained him, put him under a 72 hour hold, got it extended. By the end of the stay, the hospital had someone from Social Services fill out his disability application. He gets $800 or $900 a month having never worked a day in his life, just bought a nice Harley Sportster, and he laughs and tells the story at the local bars and barber shops. Oh yeah, in addition his income is probably supplemented by whatever the hell he makes from selling all that shit the government provides him, zanax and clopins and his pain killers.


If my problems get so bad I can't walk, I will make a special lifted wheel chair where I can get to the table and dials on my machines. And if the discs finish going and I have to walk at a 45* angle, screw it- different view of the world.

The disability system can help some genuinely damaged, screwed up, and legitimately hurt people. But the system is all to hell.

And to those of you with legit problems who are going through the hell of the process to get disability, and have worked and paid in- you have my sympathy and my respect, and I wish there was something that could be done for you. But the "I'm nuttier than a fruit cake, gimme zanax" crowd have ruined the system.