We have been struggling finding new employees, specifically machinists for our shop since beginning of the pandemic. We use indeed mostly for our job postings, have not had great luck with craigslist or facebook adds. Our benefits, salary etc, are in line and even above most of the other locally posted jobs as far as benefits, time off and salary. The majority of our current employees have been here for over 10 years. So employee retention has never been a problem. Has anyone found other platforms to be more or less successful when posting jobs? We try to hire experienced guys, who do not need training, but its looking like this is becoming harder and harder to come across.
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Struggle Finding New Employees.
- Thread starter Micmac1
- Start date
- Replies 208
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gustafson
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2002
- Location
- People's Republic
IMO the problem with platforms like indeed is they promise too much and end up limiting your choices. My online music has repetitive ads for indeed or one of those.
Want a sales rep in Tuscon who can answer the phone in English Spanish and the occasional Dutch, we got 5 of them
No, no you don't
I define what I want in a machinist, but the truth is I want someone motivated and willing to work more than I want someone with X years experience doing exactly what I do. Talking to them in person is the only way for me to do that
I was just looking and craigslist still has a bunch of help wanted ads[how they started making money originally IIRC]
Want a sales rep in Tuscon who can answer the phone in English Spanish and the occasional Dutch, we got 5 of them
No, no you don't
I define what I want in a machinist, but the truth is I want someone motivated and willing to work more than I want someone with X years experience doing exactly what I do. Talking to them in person is the only way for me to do that
I was just looking and craigslist still has a bunch of help wanted ads[how they started making money originally IIRC]
jccaclimber
Stainless
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2015
- Location
- San Francisco
Do your current employees have friends at other shops? What makes the move from them to you not worth it?
You say your rates are equal to the local area, what does that mean? A shop I used to use was very proud of their pay rates, but the simple fact is that $15/hour doesn't bring the experts running and they just didn't understand that.
You say your rates are equal to the local area, what does that mean? A shop I used to use was very proud of their pay rates, but the simple fact is that $15/hour doesn't bring the experts running and they just didn't understand that.
David Ferguson
Aluminum
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2008
- Location
- Paso Robles, CA
I suggest you consider using a Machinist Recruiter. Yes, you will pay a premium (but only if you hire someone), but they actively go looking for the folks that aren't looking for a job.
michiganbuck
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Location
- Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
One big problem is that some /many machine operator jobs don't require a ton of skill and that has driven down the wages of the skilled jobs. Another problem is that non-skill and skill shop jobs are hard work so most people would prefer easier work in a clean environment for the same pay. I if a shop's top 25% are making $25 plus and the new guys can look forward to higher pay, that is an incentive. learning a trade is another incentive. wide open door to China and India is another problem, manufacturing competes more with that than many other kinds of work.
Mebfab
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2003
- Location
- Mebane North Carolina USA
Around here you can make the same or more at harbor freight then many of the machining jobs.
Let's see, ability to lift 50lbs, light programing, setup, and operation of cnc router. $12-13 an hour.
Sell horrible freight tools to gassy old men. $15
Let's see, ability to lift 50lbs, light programing, setup, and operation of cnc router. $12-13 an hour.
Sell horrible freight tools to gassy old men. $15
I have posted job listings on here under the job opportunity thread. No luck, in fact just reposted one earlier today. Wages are between $30-40 per hour, potential for higher for the right person. but we look for guys who can program and make a part to print, complete. Our work cells consist of a cnc lathe and mill. So they need to have some sort of experience with both. The type of work we do, makes running programers and operators tricky. 80% of jobs we run are for qty of 1.
john.k
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2012
- Location
- Brisbane Qld Australia
same here ,and now there is some nonsense of making retirees go back to work .........I got some news for you......Train some apprentices,put on a trainee........Oh ,right ,they are useless,cant do anything on day one.........the damn goverment ought ta train them ,we cant afford it.
We have hired trainees, and guys with less experience right out of trade school. Unfortunately many are not "trainable", maybe 1/10 work out. They don't ask questions, think they know better because they spent a semester doing haas training, because youtube says or titan says.......im not saying those are not valuable resources, however, there is a difference from real world vs ideal conditions, and machine limitations.
BT Fabrication
Stainless
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2019
- Location
- Ontario Canada
problem is today nobody is willing to train people who don't have experience. that is the Archille's heel. How does anyone expect to gain experience if they want to learn without being taught........
pro tip is find a guy who is willing to work and learn, but doesn't know anything about machining but is willing to learn. bring them on for a week, say that up front, let them decide how much they want it. Im sure there are tons of car guys who can turn wrenches but not even sure where to start with machining but can learn.
just ask them if they can measure things with a measuring tape to begin with.
Bondo
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- May 14, 2011
- Location
- Bridgeton NJ
My newest employee came from a job making $17 hr doing production stuff. Very boring after the first 4 hours of work for the rest of your career type work. I brought him on at $20 as that is my minimum. He has been here almost 2 months now. But at least once a week he brings up how he would go back to the job he was treated poorly and made $16 hr because he liked it. This guy is only 21 years old, but that gives you the mentality of workers I get applying.
Zip recruiter sucks unless you hire them as a recruiter, but they want a guaranteed 5k for anyone within 30 days.
Indeed is just a massive advertising service. Meaning all advertising no quality. Massive amount of time reviewing false resumes.
I'd like to use a recruiter, as I have months of work ahead of me, but from what I hear from my customers, it's 50/50 good vs waste of money. That's easy for a company doing 20+ million a month though.
Zip recruiter sucks unless you hire them as a recruiter, but they want a guaranteed 5k for anyone within 30 days.
Indeed is just a massive advertising service. Meaning all advertising no quality. Massive amount of time reviewing false resumes.
I'd like to use a recruiter, as I have months of work ahead of me, but from what I hear from my customers, it's 50/50 good vs waste of money. That's easy for a company doing 20+ million a month though.
I think anymore you will only find people through word of mouth recommendations.
I don't know any skilled machinists who use or have used any "services" or "apps". In fact I'd wager half the skilled machinists I know don't even have resume's.
Regarding pay, you may want to look outside your area and see what shops are paying. You mentioned your $30-$40/hr is comparable to locations in your area, but if it is just comparable, why would someone come to you? Is $30-$40/hr GOOD pay in your area?
I'll give you a point of reference. Last year I inadvertently was asked to apply at a company. That part is a long story, but I went up and interviewed. The whole time I was there they talked about how great their pay was, how great their benefits were. The best around.
After the interview they were thrilled and said they would have an offer to me first thing the following week. So my wife and I spent the weekend looking at houses online, looking at the local area, etc. Our 100 year old house was $93,000 when we bought it 12 years ago. A similar house today is $250k-$300k.
Their offer came back, and it was not great. $29/hr and benefits were lackluster, marginal, ok at best. They did give me 2 weeks vacation, which is the max they offer. They considered $29/hr excellent pay. This is for prototype/development work. I can go down the road and be a button pusher with better benefits for $33/hr.
So, while an employer doesn't care about an employee's needs as far as housing, moving, etc etc, those factor into the costs for an employee. It may simply not be feasible for someone to move and start working for you at $40/hr. Depending on where you live, $40/hr might be barely enough to get by. Where I live, housing costs are 8% below the national average. Where I would be moving to was 83% above the national average. (Similar houses cost the same in both - riddle me that) So you may be drawing from the immediate local pool, probably less than an hour drive. If your pay is comparable to the area, why would anyone leave their current shop and come to you?
I worked with guys that were called "surfers". They would leave whatever shop they were at every year, and get a $1/$2 raise. They did this every year. Some of them had a circuit they did. Some moved to whoever offered the highest. I wouldn't want to hire one of these guys.
So what is the incentive to come to your shop?
I don't know any skilled machinists who use or have used any "services" or "apps". In fact I'd wager half the skilled machinists I know don't even have resume's.
Regarding pay, you may want to look outside your area and see what shops are paying. You mentioned your $30-$40/hr is comparable to locations in your area, but if it is just comparable, why would someone come to you? Is $30-$40/hr GOOD pay in your area?
I'll give you a point of reference. Last year I inadvertently was asked to apply at a company. That part is a long story, but I went up and interviewed. The whole time I was there they talked about how great their pay was, how great their benefits were. The best around.
After the interview they were thrilled and said they would have an offer to me first thing the following week. So my wife and I spent the weekend looking at houses online, looking at the local area, etc. Our 100 year old house was $93,000 when we bought it 12 years ago. A similar house today is $250k-$300k.
Their offer came back, and it was not great. $29/hr and benefits were lackluster, marginal, ok at best. They did give me 2 weeks vacation, which is the max they offer. They considered $29/hr excellent pay. This is for prototype/development work. I can go down the road and be a button pusher with better benefits for $33/hr.
So, while an employer doesn't care about an employee's needs as far as housing, moving, etc etc, those factor into the costs for an employee. It may simply not be feasible for someone to move and start working for you at $40/hr. Depending on where you live, $40/hr might be barely enough to get by. Where I live, housing costs are 8% below the national average. Where I would be moving to was 83% above the national average. (Similar houses cost the same in both - riddle me that) So you may be drawing from the immediate local pool, probably less than an hour drive. If your pay is comparable to the area, why would anyone leave their current shop and come to you?
I worked with guys that were called "surfers". They would leave whatever shop they were at every year, and get a $1/$2 raise. They did this every year. Some of them had a circuit they did. Some moved to whoever offered the highest. I wouldn't want to hire one of these guys.
So what is the incentive to come to your shop?
Bill D
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2004
- Location
- Modesto, CA USA
Location? How much do other local jobs pay. You may be paying more then other shops but the dollar store pays more then your highest wages.
15/hr is minimum wage now.
Bill D
15/hr is minimum wage now.
Bill D
We are in central MA, Out towards boston you may see $40-50/hr about 40 min drive east (not including traffic), Drive 40 miles west and pay is probably $20-$30/hr. A big thing with our area is ALOT of production style shops, ALOT of tool and die shops and a few world class mold & mold repair shops. Places like these have programmers making $35-65/ hr and operators making $20-25. I have seen over and over again alot of the best machinist we come across end up taking jobs programming and no longer machining. Unfortunately with our type of work the whole operator vs programmer is not ideal for our type of work.
Out towards boston you may see $40-50/hr about 40 min drive east
Places like these have programmers making $35-65/ hr
These two lines tell me that your competing with $35-$65/hr, not the "between $30-40 per hour" you mentioned.
Unless you can differentiate yourself in a way that attracts employees ultimately it comes down to dollars and cents.
If your a company that REALLY has your shop together, you run a well managed shop, that is worth something. If your shop is one emergency after another, grinding old inserts trying to get by, worn out machinery, etc. That all plays into it. Are you well known in the area as a good employer? Clean, climate controlled shop? Strict on time? Relaxed work environment?
Places like these have programmers making $35-65/ hr
These two lines tell me that your competing with $35-$65/hr, not the "between $30-40 per hour" you mentioned.
Unless you can differentiate yourself in a way that attracts employees ultimately it comes down to dollars and cents.
If your a company that REALLY has your shop together, you run a well managed shop, that is worth something. If your shop is one emergency after another, grinding old inserts trying to get by, worn out machinery, etc. That all plays into it. Are you well known in the area as a good employer? Clean, climate controlled shop? Strict on time? Relaxed work environment?
Our shop is very clean, oldest machine is 2017. We are a small job shop, but very well tooled up, just loaded up on 5k in emuge tooling, 2+ NEW boxes on hand of just about every insert you can imagine (turning and milling), which we always reorder when getting low, i cant even tell you the last time we re ground an insert other than for a specialty profile. A bunch of new mari holders, plenty of work holding, and everything in between. I think the biggest part is being such a small shop scares some people away. Additonally i would say programmers in that 45-65 range would likely be the absolute best of the best, likely in a large swiss or production shop, requiriong a 4 year engineering degree of somesort. and that type of person would likely not be interested in doing the hands on start to finish type work that we do here.
I am right down the street from Starrett and they have a sign out front with $17-$22/hr, walk in an interview, doors open. They cant get any help. Staffing agencies tell me they get maybe 1 person here and there and they last less than a week.
Drive down rt 2 an hour and a half and can get $55/hr, state minimum (prevailing wage law) with no education or diploma.
Inside of I-495 ( 2nd beltway outside of Boston), show up pay for a warm body is $40+/hr.
This is what I compete with. I only get junkies with no drivers license, who need $ looking for work. They want to get paid at the end of the day.
All the good workers are already employed, making more money than most of us are willing to pay them. We would have to poach workers from other companies and I dont operate that way. Bringing people on board now a days requires a lot more patience than most of us are willing to deal with. Its a generational thing, people joining the workforce today werent raised to be hard working and respectful or have pride in their work.
You sound like a good place to work. Your not the only one having a hard time finding help.
Solution.... ROBOTS, ROBOTS, ROBOTS
Milland
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2006
- Location
- Hillsboro, New Hampshire
No education? I'm almost qualified for jobs like that. And at $55/hr, I might even show up! Tell me, good sir, where might one find these jobs?
[I bet you mean $15/hr, if MA is now at $55 minimum I'm moving back...]
He is referring to union prevailing wage jobs out near boston. You can be a laborer on state jobs, based on location. Prevailing wage in boston is $55. So if you work for a company as a entry level laborer that does highway construction, minimum wage in this case would be $55, minus union dues etc of course.