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Tangential tool holders versus traditional turning tool

alan speyrer

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Feb 15, 2009
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Anybody try the Iscar LNMX or Kennametal Fxi8 tangential tools for rough turning? Currently I’m using CNMG for rough turning, I’m just wondering if a tangential insert tool would remove metal faster than my CNMG insert tool? Are either of these tangential inserts good at facing parts?
 
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I have no experience with tangential inserts, but, I think, these may cause some chatter.
Would like to know when these are preferable over diamond shapes.
 
You can really move some material with iscar lnmx, at least turning. Not sure about facing. 4140 ann they do great. We only use them when there is a LOT of stock removal.
 
I looked at the KennaMetal version online and cannot tell if the chip breaker shape would work as well or better that the usual chip breaker on a box tool mounted on a screw machine or turret lathe. A box tool with the usual chip breaker will more often than not shoot a tightly curled chip out in a straight line.
The look of tool certainly is interesting. If I was doing heavy material removal, I would certainly try it.
 
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Anybody try the Iscar LNMX or Kennametal Fxi8 tangential tools for rough turning? Currently I’m using CNMG for rough turning, I’m just wondering if a tangential insert tool would remove metal faster than my CNMG insert tool? Are either of these tangential inserts good at facing parts?
I'd say it depends on what your rough material is. We've tried out the Fix8 tool and while it works great as long as you can run it in clean/stable conditions like bar, it really struggles when you try cutting big nasty forgings or if you have a part you aren't able to fully support it sticking out of the chuck.

You might try looking into Iscar's COMG inserts, you wouldn't really have to change much about your programming and if you buy the 100 degree holders you'll have more edges than the tangential tools. You can really push them hard.
 
We have used them for years on square 4140. You can tell by the geometry that they are SUPER strong, so they handle the interrupted cut nicely. We do something like ap .250 F.016 dry. I think they produce a lot of pressure, too so setup probably has to be stable. I HEARD they may be discontinuing that line thought so maybe ask someone at Iscar before getting too far into it. Good luck!
 
The Kennametal FIX8 is the big brother to the old school Sumitomo Ace-Fix/Fix Perfect inserts.
The issue with the Ace Fix back in the day is that it didn't like cutting up to a shoulder, the chips would nest up and chip or break the insert.
Fix8 is beefier in that it doesn't get chipped going up to a shoulder.

The Fix8 still has the same issue as the Ace-Fix in that it doesn't like cutting 4150 and like materials at a higher SFPM,you do need to slow it down a little bit from your cnmg sfpm but you can probably double the feedrate to about .03ipr or more. For mild steels this thing absolutely rips!
We have the 64ic version on a 1-1/4x1-1/4 square shank holder because we couldn't get the 1x1 at the time.

On one of our jobs we have we were going 400-450sfpm, .028-.032ipr and .400 D.O.C. per side in 4140 HRA in an Okuma LB3000 going from 11" diameter down to 4" diameter with a length of around 6" of cut.
Definitely worth buying one and messing around with it in my opinion. It has less cutting pressure than a CNMG style allowing for those higher feeds and depths of cuts.
 
The Kennametal FIX8 is the big brother to the old school Sumitomo Ace-Fix/Fix Perfect inserts.
The issue with the Ace Fix back in the day is that it didn't like cutting up to a shoulder, the chips would nest up and chip or break the insert.
Fix8 is beefier in that it doesn't get chipped going up to a shoulder.

The Fix8 still has the same issue as the Ace-Fix in that it doesn't like cutting 4150 and like materials at a higher SFPM,you do need to slow it down a little bit from your cnmg sfpm but you can probably double the feedrate to about .03ipr or more. For mild steels this thing absolutely rips!
We have the 64ic version on a 1-1/4x1-1/4 square shank holder because we couldn't get the 1x1 at the time.

On one of our jobs we have we were going 400-450sfpm, .028-.032ipr and .400 D.O.C. per side in 4140 HRA in an Okuma LB3000 going from 11" diameter down to 4" diameter with a length of around 6" of cut.
Definitely worth buying one and messing around with it in my opinion. It has less cutting pressure than a CNMG style allowing for those higher feeds and depths of cuts.

can you face with these inserts? the part I'm doing is 1045 steel, i need to face off a 1/16", i dont need a mirror finish on the face, but it does need to be smooth, i use my CNMG to face and rough turn, so i would want to use this insert the same way, and turning would be up to a shoulder. small turret on my cnc lathe, 5/8" shank tool holders. i found Iscar makes a 5/8" shank toolholder for the LNMX insert, but i did not see a toolholder in that size for Kennametal.
 
can you face with these inserts? the part I'm doing is 1045 steel, i need to face off a 1/16", i dont need a mirror finish on the face, but it does need to be smooth, i use my CNMG to face and rough turn, so i would want to use this insert the same way, and turning would be up to a shoulder. small turret on my cnc lathe, 5/8" shank tool holders. i found Iscar makes a 5/8" shank toolholder for the LNMX insert, but i did not see a toolholder in that size for Kennametal.
With a 5/8" shank holder there is very little reason to consider FIX8, it isn't offered in that shank size, I don't think it's even offered in 3/4". With a 5/8" shank I wouldn't push a CNMG much past .175 DOC. With the right geometry and machine you could maybe get to .220 safely, but soemwhere in there you are going to run out of rigitiy and will see a decline in tool life. Likely more a limitation of the machine rigidity and power than the tool shank itself. If you are looking for the lowest cutting forces to boost productivity, your time is likely best spent finding a good positive screw-on insert or find a negative insert chip breaker that optimizes things best for what you are doing. Kennametal's new MV (medium versatile) chip breaker in KCP25C would be a great insert to try and get the most out of general purpose steel turning situations. Chances are it is still more insert than you have machine. CNMG432MV KCP25C mm#7036146
 
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I have always wondered: what are the advantages of theses tangential tool vs. old knux insert? I don't see them used much nowadays, don't know why? I think they are great for heavy roughing with their positive geometry, I am right? Never used they actually, if someone as an experience with KNUX please share!
 
Anybody try the Iscar LNMX or Kennametal Fxi8 tangential tools for rough turning? Currently I’m using CNMG for rough turning, I’m just wondering if a tangential insert tool would remove metal faster than my CNMG insert tool? Are either of these tangential inserts good at facing parts?
What size lathe are you running?
 
For a rigid setup I had a LOT of success with the Iscar LNMX. Another option with a small machine is the Iscar CNMX inserts. Not quite the material removal of the LNMX but works in a wider variety of applications.
 








 
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