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Tapping solution/fluid/paste/etc

rbmgf7

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 18, 2017
I've been fighting this process where I have to drill and tap fourteen 1/4-20 on this 4140PH shaft shoulder that I have to reach in about 6 inches but doesn't give me enough clearance around the shaft to get a proper tap extension. My best solution is using a hand tap extension. I bent the extensions to turn as true as possible since it does wobble a bit. I'm rigid tapping.

In the beginning it was tough, then I got it dialed in and ran great, then suddenly it's breaking taps again. I tested the material and it's on the low end of the spec. I'm drilling using a 5.3mm (0.2086). Tapping using OSG HSS and carbide with no difference in performance. Seems to only break on the slow down as it comes to the end. Tapped fast and slow and the sweet spot is around 400.

I bypassed the door so I can clean and lube each hole and then blow off the tap after teach tap.

I've been using Crisco and it did well. Then I bought some general cutting/tapping aerosol I use for broaching and see no difference. I had a guy suggest Emuge tapping fluid. Said he watched where people were amping out the spindle tapping huge holes but with some Emuge, it cut it down to 20% load.

Any other magical lubes out there? Emuge is like $130 for a small bottle but if people can vouch for it, then that's an easy buy since we won't have to rework these shafts.

Thanks
 

gregormarwick

Diamond
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Location
Aberdeen, UK
IDK if you can get it across the pond, but Molyslip MWF (oil) or MCC (paste) is the ultimate for tapping. I use the MWF for just about everything and MCC when all else fails (because it's a pain to clean out of the holes afterwards).

But the MCC is by far the most effective and reliable tapping compound I have ever come across.

MCC - Molyslip
 

hvnlymachining

Cast Iron
Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Location
St.Onge
Crisco is vegetable oil, what you want is animal lard, also available at your local grocery store. Far better lubrication, not much price difference. We use it for all of our 4140PH tapping. It's the main ingredient in most high end tapping fluids. Vegetable "shortening"(oil) is used in most synthetic machining coolants, it's what leaves that sticky film on everything that sits dry too long. Lard doesn't get sticky, but will build up on surfaces. It works better warmed to a liquid, or thinned with kerosene into a liquid state.
 

steve-l

Titanium
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Location
Geilenkirchen, Germany
I bought a gallon can of Tap Magic before it was reformulated eliminating Trico and I'm still using it for all steels. I'm reluctant to change to a more modern product it works so well.
 

4GSR

Diamond
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Location
Victoria, Texas, USA
If you can still buy it, try Tapfree. I've tapped lots of holes in 4140/45HT with good results. I use mainly NOS high end taps, mostly gun flute taps. Also use Mobil Moblmet 766 cutting oil, too with good results. All my is manual machining work. Ken
 

boslab

Titanium
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Location
wales.uk
The original animal tapping compound was whale oil, I beleive it was in Temaxol, not any more ( I disagree with killing whales myself)
It was the first high pressure grease I was told, beef or lamb tallow was the alternative (still used) I’d have a guess that the tapping muck you need is either molybdenum disulphide or lithium based, white spray grease is supposed to be though I’m not sure, moly cv joint grease works but is stinking, the hand cleaner ‘swarfega’ works really well on Ali as does wd40, at a pinch wd is my go to as its always laying around.
Mark
 

DDoug

Diamond
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Location
NW Pa
I bypassed the door so I can clean and lube each hole and then blow off the tap after teach tap.

Another thing to watch for, whatever you lubricant you brush on, will get into the machine's sump.
Will this "magical Lube" play nice with the main coolant ?
 

eKretz

Diamond; Mod Squad
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Location
Northwest Indiana, USA
I bought a gallon can of Tap Magic before it was reformulated eliminating Trico and I'm still using it for all steels. I'm reluctant to change to a more modern product it works so well.

So umm, what's your address? And when is your bowling night? Just asking for a friend who likes bowling...:D

Moly D works pretty good but nothing beats the old trichlor stuff. I still have a small can left I keep for special (difficult) occasions.
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
+1 on the lard oil/bacon grease, cut 50/50 with kerosene. The ultimate in my book is dark sulfurized cutting oil. Available in small quantities at home desperate, in the plumbing section, used for tapping pipe threads.
 

rbmgf7

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 18, 2017
Another thing to watch for, whatever you lubricant you brush on, will get into the machine's sump.
Will this "magical Lube" play nice with the main coolant ?


lol. Large corporation here so we only purchase the cheapest of the cheap. It's basically water with rust inhibitors. If anything, a little extra anything might help.

I went and got some lard and doesn't seem much different than Crisco.

Calling the tool salesman for a sample basket of stuff based on recommendations here.
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
+1 on the lard oil/bacon grease, cut 50/50 with kerosene. The ultimate in my book is dark sulfurized cutting oil. Available in small quantities at home desperate, in the plumbing section, used for tapping pipe threads.

Does anybody remember some of the brand names of that stuff back in the days before insert tooling became popular?
We got 55 gallon drums that we used on any steel. It would stain copper and brass. All the names I Google for thinking I remember come up with nothing. My wife would make me take off my clothes in the garage and throw them in a trash can with a lid. You knew right when you walked in a shop if they were using that stuff.
 








 
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