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Thank a Union Member: 75th Anniversary of the Flint Sit-Down Strike

tjd10684

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Location
PA
Additional answers? An industrial policy. Not tariffs, but policies promoting industrial development. (IE, gov't funded R+D on REAL, useful technologies, not this green bullshit that needs a cash lifeline to barely pay back before the equipment is lifed out.) Additionally, stipulations that the technology transfered must stay IN the US for a while. (I think ITAR regulations on military tech would be a good model...)

I like the industrial policy, but any kind of taxes or tariffs should be dealt with separately. get the foundation right before worrying about tax/tariff. Actually if the foundation is strong enough then tariffs may be a non issue anyhow.

I am interested to know what kind of technologies you feel would merit looking into? I think that green tech RESEARCH should be subsidized, but attempting to promote what is essentially prototype tech as a full on industry is wrong.

I would like to see that technologies developed and later patented with tax money should have the stipulation that it must me manufactured in the USA ONLY for at least 10 yrs or something to that degree.

EDIT:

By the way look at us. People from different view points thinking together for our common good, isn't this how politics is actually suppose to work?
 

Cornilsn

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Location
Portland Oregon
I like the industrial policy, but any kind of taxes or tariffs should be dealt with separately. get the foundation right before worrying about tax/tariff. Actually if the foundation is strong enough then tariffs may be a non issue anyhow.

I am interested to know what kind of technologies you feel would merit looking into? I think that green tech RESEARCH should be subsidized, but attempting to promote what is essentially prototype tech as a full on industry is wrong.

I would like to see that technologies developed and later patented with tax money should have the stipulation that it must me manufactured in the USA ONLY for at least 10 yrs or something to that degree.

EDIT:

By the way look at us. People from different view points thinking together for our common good, isn't this how politics is actually suppose to work?

Someone will be along shortly and blow it up.

When half of the state of Oregon's deficit could be filled by stopping subsidies of windmills and solar panels, there's a real problem. go ahead and research the technologies, but if it can't pay its own way, move on.

Technologies I think need some funding:
-Advanced metalurgy/materials. Turbine efficiency (of all kinds) are driven largely by the inlet temperature... the practical limitation of higher inlet temps is the ability of the turbine to handle it. This goes for more than just aerospace apps, it would help with land based turbines and such as well.
-safe nuclear power
-Safe reprocessing of said nuclear fuel
-Recognize infastructure as a key military and economic resource. maintian the stuff for once.

I'd let my taxes go up for those things.

-A key component of other countries industial policy is 'if we're going to spend $xxx million dollars on an airplane, we want a certain % of the value-add work HERE. We need that on some things. Maybe we do but I don't hear about it.
 

andywire

Cast Iron
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Location
Michigan
Per the recommendation of an industrial policy here in the states... How about outright subsidization of our manufacturing base? That's exactly what China is doing, so how else could we realistically compete? And why not tariffs? China has placed numerous tariffs on our goods, as well as a 25% tariff on cars built here. Remember that thread? At some point, we have to grow some balls and deal with this with some muscle. Our heavy manufacturing base used to be the envy of the world... Now look at it. I'll admit though... Lawyers and politicians have done a thorough job of destroying this country and leaving it hollow. I don't expect that to change anytime soon.
 

andywire

Cast Iron
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Location
Michigan
Someone will be along shortly and blow it up.

When half of the state of Oregon's deficit could be filled by stopping subsidies of windmills and solar panels, there's a real problem. go ahead and research the technologies, but if it can't pay its own way, move on.

Technologies I think need some funding:
-Advanced metalurgy/materials. Turbine efficiency (of all kinds) are driven largely by the inlet temperature... the practical limitation of higher inlet temps is the ability of the turbine to handle it. This goes for more than just aerospace apps, it would help with land based turbines and such as well.
-safe nuclear power
-Safe reprocessing of said nuclear fuel
-Recognize infastructure as a key military and economic resource. maintian the stuff for once.

I'd let my taxes go up for those things.

-A key component of other countries industial policy is 'if we're going to spend $xxx million dollars on an airplane, we want a certain % of the value-add work HERE. We need that on some things. Maybe we do but I don't hear about it.

Hmm, infrastructure as in people with the actual know how, drive, ambition, and maybe some relevant experience? We have done a rather shitty job of addressing these forms of infrastructure. Ironically, unions had a rather firm hand in preparing the next crop of skilled workers. We've done a good job of eliminating that. Job shops are all about making money, and actually providing relevant experience never seems to fit into the budget. At what point do we start paying it forward? My guess would be, when it's too late. If supply and demand dictated market labor rates, that would be one thing. Kinda hard for that to happen when all the machine shops suddenly go belly up because they don't have the proper infrastructure. Even if someone wanted to train... Kinda hard to get a young person to stick around for half the wage of a tradesman, when the tradesman is making just enough to survive, and working 60 hours a week just to cover a mortgage to make the bank some money. The business model in our country is deeply flawed, and leads to inevitable self destruction.
 

machinehead61

Titanium
Joined
Feb 8, 2004
Location
Rochelle,IL,USA
Well, guess you're right. Lets all give up. I have no control anyway, why should I even try? fuck life, its so unfair. assholes started out with more than i did. Fuck them. someone should take it from them so they have to start where I did. someone should gaurantee that I get to a middle class living, I shouldn't be expected to think ahead, educate myself, or adapt to a world that changes around me. I shouldn't be expected to get up when life knocks me down. thats not fair, life doesn't knock everyone down.
This is the "ALL OR NOTHING" syndrome of an extremist. No balance, no gray area, everything is black or white. The real world is filled with gray areas and will keep spinning without you living in it. You appear to have been sheltered from a great deal of the reality that most inner city kids grow up with.

But seriously, what's the solution to this? I want to hear it. all I hear is how unfair it is, but no solutions.
First, you and I have to agree on what the problems are. If we don't agree on the problems, obviously my solutions won't mean anything to you.

My view on what the major problems facing the U.S. economy are:

1. The family structure is falling apart. Human society is based upon the family and as our families self-destruct, our society self-destructs.

2. A stable economy is based upon a stable society. Nobody will risk a business inside a society filled with violence, drug addicts, alcoholics, low self esteem under achievers who know more about domestic violence, rape, emotional/physical abuse/neglect, substance abuse, divorce, growing up without parents...etc.....than they know about how to get and hold a job.

3. Prevention is the only real answer. For every adult who can overcome a dysfunctional childhood, there are ten who can't. It is virtually impossible to undo 15-20 years of growing up in emotional/physical abuse/neglect and the resulting emotional damage.

4. Our large inner city "war zones" are spreading to every corner of the nation. Business and industry leave inner cities only to find the same problems spreading to small town America. Gangs can now be found in small towns that 20 years ago never seen a gang member. Gangs are a substitute for dysfunctional/non-existent families.

5. Until our society is stabilized, you can't even dream of fixing our economy.



The world must seem very bleak to you.
Any day, any time - I will drive you to a neighborhood of my choice and drop you off - without a gun.

And we will see if you can walk out of that neighborhood.

Steve
 

Boris

Titanium
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Location
England
These are what I think are decent possible solutions. What do you got? (not directed at just corn)


Easy

Term limits for congress critters/ senators (Or as we call them over here, crooks and bootlickers.. sorry MPs and Lords :D )

Banning of any 'campaign finance' from companies, individual donations fine, but anything over say £250 must be published.
Congress critters can lobby for companies, but only those actually headquartered in their districts.
No more add ons to bills, hopefully will stop things like soya bean subsidies being paid to Idaho farmers being added to the NASA mars mission bill (actually thats an example, I dont know if thats true... either one).

And change the taxation laws to define income as anything paid to you by your employer (money, share options, beer, goat cheese*)and a flat rate tax of say 30% being applied to that sum with a £15 000 tax free allowance for every citizen.

Boris

*Goat cheese? :skep:
 

smalltime

Banned
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Location
Kansas City
Easy

Term limits for congress critters/ senators (Or as we call them over here, crooks and bootlickers.. sorry MPs and Lords :D )

Banning of any 'campaign finance' from companies, individual donations fine, but anything over say £250 must be published.
Congress critters can lobby for companies, but only those actually headquartered in their districts.
No more add ons to bills, hopefully will stop things like soya bean subsidies being paid to Idaho farmers being added to the NASA mars mission bill (actually thats an example, I dont know if thats true... either one).

And change the taxation laws to define income as anything paid to you by your employer (money, share options, beer, goat cheese*)and a flat rate tax of say 30% being applied to that sum with a £15 000 tax free allowance for every citizen.

Boris

*Goat cheese? :skep:

Dam Boris,
You hit that one out of the park. I could agree with you on pretty much all of your points. The only thing I see standing in the way is the "money is now speach" rulling from the SCOTUS.

If the taxes stopped there, it would be perfect.

(Goat Cheese:confused:)
 

Cornilsn

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Location
Portland Oregon
This is the "ALL OR NOTHING" syndrome of an extremist. No balance, no gray area, everything is black or white. The real world is filled with gray areas and will keep spinning without you living in it. You appear to have been sheltered from a great deal of the reality that most inner city kids grow up with.

First, you and I have to agree on what the problems are. If we don't agree on the problems, obviously my solutions won't mean anything to you.

My view on what the major problems facing the U.S. economy are:

1. The family structure is falling apart. Human society is based upon the family and as our families self-destruct, our society self-destructs.

2. A stable economy is based upon a stable society. Nobody will risk a business inside a society filled with violence, drug addicts, alcoholics, low self esteem under achievers who know more about domestic violence, rape, emotional/physical abuse/neglect, substance abuse, divorce, growing up without parents...etc.....than they know about how to get and hold a job.

3. Prevention is the only real answer. For every adult who can overcome a dysfunctional childhood, there are ten who can't. It is virtually impossible to undo 15-20 years of growing up in emotional/physical abuse/neglect and the resulting emotional damage.

4. Our large inner city "war zones" are spreading to every corner of the nation. Business and industry leave inner cities only to find the same problems spreading to small town America. Gangs can now be found in small towns that 20 years ago never seen a gang member. Gangs are a substitute for dysfunctional/non-existent families.

5. Until our society is stabilized, you can't even dream of fixing our economy.



Any day, any time - I will drive you to a neighborhood of my choice and drop you off - without a gun.

And we will see if you can walk out of that neighborhood.

Steve

I know I'm sheltered from what it's like to be in an 'inner city war zone.' I grew up on a farm and went to a school where I graduated with 48 people. I even owned that I have no idea what it's like to be knocked completely on my ass and loose everything. Go read my post again (last one on pg 3 i think.) If that does happen to me, I hope I don't sink into the pit where I worry more about what is or isn't fair, and what other people have... and instead maintain my focus on getting where I want to be. But, I hope I never find out.

As for the all or nothing thing you brought up... Wrong. I'm not an extremist. My republican friends think I'm a liberal when they start running thier jibs about the social side of conservatism, abortion, legalizing gay marriage or marijauna. I don't have the time to explain the intricacies of my viewpoints... and the far left side of the spectrum is so over-represented on this board I figure that side is all covered. There is also alot of all-or-nothingism from the gmatov's, john weldons, and to a lesser extent, jim rozen's of this board as well. So don't single me out on that.

That said, I think your identification of the problems is spot on. This is where the religious wacko sect of the republican party will blame liberals for killing religion and the family and all that shit. I won't do that because it isn't really true. I don't think three generations of welfare helped, either... but the alternative probably would have been worse.

A thought that crosses my mind here is that the problems you identify are a symptom of an entire class that has money problems (being a major factor in divorces and such)... but I'm not sure about that. There were generations of income inequality before (I'm thinking 1800's and early 1900's) that were worse... yet these things didn't seem to be as prevalent. Perhaps the differentiating factor here is the widespread availability of hard drug? But, i don't know.

Goat cheese:confused:
edit: People should get a tax rebate for eating goat cheese. I wouldn't eat that nasty stuff if I was paid!
 

John Welden

Diamond
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Location
Seattle
My view on what the major problems facing the U.S. economy are:

1. The family structure is falling apart. Human society is based upon the family and as our families self-destruct, our society self-destructs.

2. A stable economy is based upon a stable society. Nobody will risk a business inside a society filled with violence, drug addicts, alcoholics, low self esteem under achievers who know more about domestic violence, rape, emotional/physical abuse/neglect, substance abuse, divorce, growing up without parents...etc.....than they know about how to get and hold a job.

3. Prevention is the only real answer. For every adult who can overcome a dysfunctional childhood, there are ten who can't. It is virtually impossible to undo 15-20 years of growing up in emotional/physical abuse/neglect and the resulting emotional damage.

4. Our large inner city "war zones" are spreading to every corner of the nation. Business and industry leave inner cities only to find the same problems spreading to small town America. Gangs can now be found in small towns that 20 years ago never seen a gang member. Gangs are a substitute for dysfunctional/non-existent families.

5. Until our society is stabilized, you can't even dream of fixing our economy.

Steve

Actually, crime is way down compared to where it used to be.

So is war around the world.

Divorce rates are falling too.

viort.gif

wilcox5.jpg


What is way up is income inequality. But I know that doesn't count with conservatives. It's fine if a tiny portion of the society has most of the wealth. :cheers: Trickle down economics has worked really well!
Income-Inequality-When-Income-Grows-Who-Gains-Infographic-1917-to-2008.jpg
 

tjd10684

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Location
PA
@ Boris

I was not meaning to be adversarial. Just trying to get other people to come up with ideas.
 

Kiwi2wheels

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Location
Orlando,FL, USA
This is the "ALL OR NOTHING" syndrome of an extremist. No balance, no gray area, everything is black or white. The real world is filled with gray areas and will keep spinning without you living in it. You appear to have been sheltered from a great deal of the reality that most inner city kids grow up with.

First, you and I have to agree on what the problems are. If we don't agree on the problems, obviously my solutions won't mean anything to you.

My view on what the major problems facing the U.S. economy are:

1. The family structure is falling apart. Human society is based upon the family and as our families self-destruct, our society self-destructs.

2. A stable economy is based upon a stable society. Nobody will risk a business inside a society filled with violence, drug addicts, alcoholics, low self esteem under achievers who know more about domestic violence, rape, emotional/physical abuse/neglect, substance abuse, divorce, growing up without parents...etc.....than they know about how to get and hold a job.

3. Prevention is the only real answer. For every adult who can overcome a dysfunctional childhood, there are ten who can't. It is virtually impossible to undo 15-20 years of growing up in emotional/physical abuse/neglect and the resulting emotional damage.

4. Our large inner city "war zones" are spreading to every corner of the nation. Business and industry leave inner cities only to find the same problems spreading to small town America. Gangs can now be found in small towns that 20 years ago never seen a gang member. Gangs are a substitute for dysfunctional/non-existent families.

5. Until our society is stabilized, you can't even dream of fixing our economy.



Any day, any time - I will drive you to a neighborhood of my choice and drop you off - without a gun.

And we will see
if you can walk out of that neighborhood.

Steve

Sadly , this sounds a pretty accurate critique of the UK too :(
 








 
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