The IRS is still being incompetent

[cnctoolcat]

So I get a letter from the IRS the other day saying I didn't file the company's 1120S on time. And their penalty is $220 per shareholder, per month!

As it turns out, my assistant started mailing everything to the IRS using certified mail, since they had gotten on a kick about claiming we weren't filing stuff on time.

Now I don't mind to get a friendly letter reminding me to "file all forms when due". But when they send a nasty letter demanding $220 out of me--when I know we filed on time, I have to draw the line. Especially when I have the USPS receipt showing where my 1120S was indeed mailed on 3-15-23.

So they are getting a certified letter with a copy of the receipt, with polite wording to please remove this erroneous fine from our account immediately.

Without this certified mail "proof", companies are stuck paying the $220...or more. Because in cases like this, you have no proof the form was actually mailed on time, and thus the IRS wins.

ToolCat

 

[boosted]

The damned IRS, FBI, and DOJ have been ruined by a certain political faction in this country...

ToolCat

Sure. Large federal justice entities all worked great until a few years ago….

Can’t we just agree that the federal government is mostly incompetent without even mentioning tribalism?

 

[FredC]

My dad got a letter from the IRS years ago wanting money from him. Something about a box not being checked. He had just moved in with us and I found the copy with the box appropriately checked. Sent them a copy with the demand for them to abate the collection process and never heard from them again (I had just learned that word abated and got to use it in a letter :-) ). Mistakes happen when you look at 1000s of pieces of paper a day, nothing new.

 

[empower]

in other news: the sky is still blue!


sorry, but expecting ANY level of competency from any govt agency is setting yourself up for failure.

 

[Ox]

So I get a letter from the IRS the other day saying I didn't file the company's 1120S on time. And their penalty is $220 per shareholder, per month!

As it turns out, my assistant started mailing everything to the IRS using certified mail, since they had gotten on a kick about claiming we weren't filing stuff on time.

Now I don't mind to get a friendly letter reminding me to "file all forms when due". But when the shysters try to extort $220 out of me, I draw the line. Especially when I have the USPS receipt showing where my 1120S was indeed mailed on 3-15-23.

So they are getting a certified letter with a copy of the receipt, with polite wording to please remove this erroneous fine from our account immediately.

Without this certified mail "proof", companies are stuck paying the $220! Because in cases like this, you have no proof the form was actually mailed on time, and thus the IRS wins.

The damned IRS, FBI, and DOJ have been ruined by a certain political faction in this country...

ToolCat

Oh, I figgered that you were going to say that you cheated the IRS out of $25K and they never noticed?
That's not it?

Didn't you have to E-file on that side of the M/D line?


------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[cnctoolcat]

This thread was kind of a continuation of one a year or two back, where the IRS was sending out many letters claiming forms and filings and such were not made on time.

The IRS has to sign for certified mail, like anybody else. Certified mail is legal proof of the postmark date. (Although technically it doesn't prove anything was inside the envelope, so the government can still win.)

How many on here have been sending their forms and such via certified mail? It's the only leverage you have if they fine you for late filings.

I'm just wondering how many small businesses are being sent these exorbitant penalties for late filings that were actually filed on-time....? I imagine most just put the bill in the payables, and the "lady" or the "accountant" mails the IRS a check a few weeks later. NOT ME.

"Didn't you have to E-file on that side of the M/D line?"

I have always filed out a pdf, printed and mailed it. The online E-file companies I checked out for the 1120S came with hefty fees, and I'm not into that. Accountants may have some sweet setup with the IRS where they can E-file 1120S forms for free, but AFAIK a self-filer must either pay a 3rd party online company, or send paper.

I send paper....via certified mail, haha!

ToolCat

 

[guythatbrews]

Don't mail it. Use the web. Register at EFTPS.gov. You get a confirmation number and emailed receipt. No fiddling with certified mail which is great. Quicker and you can do it at midnight in your underpants. Or commando if you prefer.

 

[boosted]

Don't mail it. Use the web. Register at EFTPS.gov.

Our accountant had me do that. From what I can tell he does it all online.

My (biggest) frustration with the IRS is how much actual tax burden can change based on how creative you want to be. We probably pay quite a bit more taxes than the shop down the street, just because our accountant is especially prudent. A $200 fine might as well be a rounding error relative to how much the IRS takes from the business (every quarter) once things are settled.

 

[guythatbrews]

Our accountant had me do that. From what I can tell he does it all online.

My (biggest) frustration with the IRS is how much actual tax burden can change based on how creative you want to be. We probably pay quite a bit more taxes than the shop down the street, just because our accountant is especially prudent. A $200 fine might as well be a rounding error relative to how much the IRS takes from the business (every quarter) once things are settled.

Right you are. The tax laws are waaaay to complicated and favor the rich for sure. The complication has created the IRS-Accountancy complex. At least the military-industrial complex creates value added jobs.

It's been like this for a good long while. I was a kid when Tricky Dick Nixon released his tax return. Dad blew a gasket that a plumber paid more tax by far than POTUS.

Yeah been like this for awhile. Trouble is it's getting worse!

 

[Newman109]

USPS Priority Mail works nicely, too. You get a tracking number with a time of mailing and a time of delivery on the Internet. Sometimes the green card on Certified Mail can get detached from the letter and sent back to you without a signature.

 

[cnctoolcat]

Don't mail it. Use the web. Register at EFTPS.gov. You get a confirmation number and emailed receipt. No fiddling with certified mail which is great.

I do all of the monthly and quarterly deposits using EFTPS. But you can not file a sub-chapter S-corporation 1120S annual tax return there...I just looked.

The only place online you can do it, AFAIK, is 3rd-party websites where you have to pay.

Personal taxes you can file online for free, I do that every year. But if there is a way to file the annual 1120S form online for free, I've never found it!

And no offense to you guys who have accountants, but small business (less than 10 employees) accounting isn't that hard, and it doesn't take that much time.

Unless you have a big shop with dozens of employees, dozens of machines and buildings to depreciate, etc., you really don't need an accountant. Sure, you got to spend a little time educating yourself, but that's for anything new that comes along in the business, eh?

 

[guythatbrews]

I do all of the monthly and quarterly deposits using EFTPS. But you can not file a sub-chapter S-corporation 1120S annual tax return there...I just looked.

The only place online you can do it, AFAIK, is 3rd-party websites where you have to pay.

Personal taxes you can file online for free, I do that every year. But if there is a way to file the annual 1120S form online for free, I've never found it!

And no offense to you guys who have accountants, but small business (less than 10 employees) accounting isn't that hard, and it doesn't take that much time.

Unless you have a big shop with dozens of employees, dozens of machines and buildings to depreciate, etc., you really don't need an accountant. Sure, you got to spend a little time educating yourself, but that's for anything new that comes along in the business, eh?

Right you are on the filing tax returns. My accountant efiles those for me. EFTPS just takes the money.

Sorry gotta disagree with you filing your own taxes. I used too way back when things were simpler, but no more. It's practically a full time job for the accountants to keep up with all the crap, and they are supposed to know what they're doing.

The number of employees, buildings, and machines doesn't matter much since computers automate repetitive stuff. If you've got a business the BS gets deep very fast.

I'd rather educate myself in matters I enjoy. I pay the accountant goons so I don't have to deal with stuff I detest. I mean really detest!

 

[FredC]

Sometimes it is us that are incompetent, about 25 years ago they sent me a check for exactly 20 thousand after filing in April. At first I thought it was a trap and if we signed it, I would be going to jail. Did some checking and I sent them a $20,000 check for my quarterly tax and forgot to note it.
It was sort of a trap, my wife refused to sign it if I did not give her 1/2 of it. Well, I did and spent about a thousand on sod for the yard and before I could find anything else that I needed, she had spent the rest of my 1/2. Easy come easy go.

 

[Mr. Atoz]

How do you spell incompetent?

 

[jerholz]

How do you spell incompetent?

I love irony.

 

[guythatbrews]

How do you spell incompetent?

Ouch!

 

[cnctoolcat]

Eh, spelling has always been my weak suit. My brain is just working to the next words before I finish the current one. If it really matters, I proofread with focus. But, I don't pay enough attention to the red squiggly underlines when typing (ADD?), as I use slang a lot ("gotta") and it always flags stuff like that.

I am good at personal and business finance and tax accounting though (a bit autistic maybe). Saved at least $100K over the last 26 years being my own accountant. Invested over time is what, $200k today?

And no, having an accountant wouldn't have saved me a penny in taxes. What they do for a S-Corp or LLC's quarterly and annual tax returns isn't rocket science.

Thus the curiosity if anybody else gets a steep fine for filing their annual corporate tax returns "late". I guess everybody here depends on an accountant to do it...? (To be fair, I did minor in accounting at VT.)

From what I've seen, in "grey areas", accountants are chickens, and probably end up costing their customers more in taxes. I don't blame them, when they sign on the return they're assuming "some" liability. Although with a couple of experience's I was aware of, the accountant threw the small-business customer under the bus, saying they didn't provide enough information...blah, blah.

 

[Booze Daily]

I didn’t file for 3 yrs recently. Personal and business.
Caught it all up, didn’t pay any steep fines.

You know you can file for a 6 month extension.

 

[boosted]

I am good at personal and business finance and tax accounting though (a bit autistic maybe). Saved at least $100K over the last 26 years being my own accountant. Invested over time is what, $200k today?

Seems pennywise and pound foolish to me. My time is pretty valuable. The accountant charges me hourly to have one of his assistants reconcile our books, and it is a lot less than I make per hour if I go run the machines. Once the books are clean, it's actually not that expensive to have them file a return.

Also, whenever the banks, a vendor, or a customer demand to see our financials (nevermind that it's none of their business), the value of having well kept records that are vetted by a professional is absolutely massive.

There is an argument to be made that I am leaving money on the table because the Eagle Scout accountant doesn't let me take any risks that could upset an IRS auditor.

 

[neilho]

I'm a paper guy too, and send everything certified, return receipt requested. Unfortunately, seems the IRS is understaffed and I often don't get the return receipt card back for a couple months. Filed for an extension last year and got a letter this February saying my extension request was 2 days late. I ignored it, but kept the post marked envelope for giggles.