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What's new

The US sanctions impacting the Chinese chip industry

What do you think?
What do I think?

From the last paragraph:
“The Biden administration understands now that it isn’t enough for America to run faster — we also need to actively hamper the P.R.C.’s ambitions for tech dominance,” he said, referring to the People’s Republic of China. “This marks a serious evolution in the administration’s thinking.”

Me thinks our corporate greed have passed the point of no return some 15-20 years ago.
Enough or not, running as fast as we can is about ALL we can do at this point!
 
I think........
Mid-terms getting real close and The Administration is jibber-jabbering much nonsense that average people don't view as a priority.
Hopefully U.S. manufacturing, other than defense will benefit.
 
The Ukraine war demonstrates the military imperative of denying an enemy force the latest technology...........the Chinese have to figure a way of capturing Taiwan intact to get the latest chip technology..........the situation also demonstrates the absolute folly of having such a critical supply chain link 50 miles from a powerful enemy.
 
...the Chinese have to figure a way of capturing Taiwan intact to get the latest chip technology.........

Hmm....Wouldn't it be interesting if it was us to bomb Taiwan first he?

Sure would make more sense than blaming the USA for the Nordstream sabotage ...
 
If China put an export embargo on Australia......we wouldnt even have boomerangs and spears......cause they are made in China too.........Im even looking at a new Chinese made excavator .....quarter the price of a Jap made one.....even 20 year old 14,000 hr Korean excavators are more expensive than new Chinese.
 
The Ukraine war demonstrates the military imperative of denying an enemy force the latest technology...........the Chinese have to figure a way of capturing Taiwan intact to get the latest chip technology..........the situation also demonstrates the absolute folly of having such a critical supply chain link 50 miles from a powerful enemy.
Even if they captured Taiwan, they could not operate TSMC without US input. This new ruling makes it impossible for US engineers to assist Chinese firms. If the US slapped the same level of sanctions on China that Russia is under, China would be in the stone age in 6 months. Remember, it took China decades to develop its own ballpoint pen tip; how long do you think it would take them to master the UV mirrors only Zeiss can produce? Two companies (ASML and Zeiss) today hold the keys to making 5nm chips on a production scale, and the race is on for sub-5 nm chips. China was never in that race, but the ruling made their entry even more remote.
 
As practice has shown, about 15 years.
China seems to have already mastered lithography machines with process technology around 10-15nm.
not that sure about that statement :)


I think the Chinese are scrambling right now.
 
Here is something to think about.

The top 2% of the population are considered to be geniuses. This is loosely measured as having an IQ in excess of 132.

In the USA, total population of ages 0 - 24 is around 104 million. 2% of that total is roughly 2 million people - at the genius level - many of whom may have an impact on technology and other development for the next 30 years. However, we wouldn't even be at that level of birth if it wasn't for the illegal immigrants - many of whom have a higher birth rate than US citizens. AND - we are doing a poor job of assimilating these folks into US society, including stigmatizing their backgrounds - which may negatively impact their ability to achieve their potential.

In China, the total population of ages 1 - 24 is around 422 million. 2% of that total is roughly 8.4 million - six million more genius level IQ citizens that will be impacting technology and other development over the next 30 years. On the negative side in China, their communist society is not supportive of the freedoms that allow unfettered individual intellectual growth, so that's in our favor.

During the past two years, the US has seen a decline in educational results across the spectrum - especially in the STEM fields. As a society our K - 12 educators seem more preoccupied with supporting gender studies, alternative lifestyles and gender transitions versus advancing our educational results.

Today there was an article in the news about a NYU organic chemistry professor whom students petitioned to have fired because his classes were too 'hard'. The professor has been teaching the same subject matter for decades....

The "cancel" and "Woke" culture movements have distracted our students and educators from focusing on personal knowledge growth or listening to diverse opinions from those considered to be "conservative" - a dirty word in modern educational circles.

I wonder how much of the cultural changes to our education and societal systems are being supported and funded by governments that have a vested interest in seeing the US decline and ultimately fail?

(for the record, I'm not against someone changing their gender. However, considering the hormonal impact that takes place during the teen years, I do think that any gender decisions should be made as an adult - not as a child If as a society we deem a 14 year old too young to responsibly own a firearm, too young to make a decision to have sex with an adult, then why do we think that they are mature enough to make a life altering decision to change their gender???.)
 
Even if they captured Taiwan, they could not operate TSMC without US input. This new ruling makes it impossible for US engineers to assist Chinese firms. If the US slapped the same level of sanctions on China that Russia is under, China would be in the stone age in 6 months. Remember, it took China decades to develop its own ballpoint pen tip; how long do you think it would take them to master the UV mirrors only Zeiss can produce? Two companies (ASML and Zeiss) today hold the keys to making 5nm chips on a production scale, and the race is on for sub-5 nm chips. China was never in that race, but the ruling made their entry even more remote.
I remember a time when Japan could not make an automobile worth a shit.
I remember a time when the USA the only place for chip production.
I remember a time when China was not even on the map as a producer of anything and blown of as a failed country of despair.
I remember a time when the student became the master.

This move for feel good reasons. Long term it seems not a good idea as it forces them to advance faster.
Does China have fewer "bright" people than us? NO.
Have we been at it hard longer and have a lead? YES
Will they transform from cheap mass produced products to world class leaders and innovators? Ask Japan and GM how that happened.
Bob
 
Here is something to think about.

The top 2% of the population are considered to be geniuses. This is loosely measured as having an IQ in excess of 132.

In the USA, total population of ages 0 - 24 is around 104 million. 2% of that total is roughly 2 million people - at the genius level - many of whom may have an impact on technology and other development for the next 30 years. However, we wouldn't even be at that level of birth if it wasn't for the illegal immigrants - many of whom have a higher birth rate than US citizens. AND - we are doing a poor job of assimilating these folks into US society, including stigmatizing their backgrounds - which may negatively impact their ability to achieve their potential.

In China, the total population of ages 1 - 24 is around 422 million. 2% of that total is roughly 8.4 million - six million more genius level IQ citizens that will be impacting technology and other development over the next 30 years. On the negative side in China, their communist society is not supportive of the freedoms that allow unfettered individual intellectual growth, so that's in our favor.

During the past two years, the US has seen a decline in educational results across the spectrum - especially in the STEM fields. As a society our K - 12 educators seem more preoccupied with supporting gender studies, alternative lifestyles and gender transitions versus advancing our educational results.

Today there was an article in the news about a NYU organic chemistry professor whom students petitioned to have fired because his classes were too 'hard'. The professor has been teaching the same subject matter for decades....

The "cancel" and "Woke" culture movements have distracted our students and educators from focusing on personal knowledge growth or listening to diverse opinions from those considered to be "conservative" - a dirty word in modern educational circles.

I wonder how much of the cultural changes to our education and societal systems are being supported and funded by governments that have a vested interest in seeing the US decline and ultimately fail?

(for the record, I'm not against someone changing their gender. However, considering the hormonal impact that takes place during the teen years, I do think that any gender decisions should be made as an adult - not as a child If as a society we deem a 14 year old too young to responsibly own a firearm, too young to make a decision to have sex with an adult, then why do we think that they are mature enough to make a life altering decision to change their gender???.)
Not sure it is just sheer numbers that matter. If you combine US capital with a million geniuses, I think it can stand up with the rest of the world's geniuses armed with paper and pencils. If the US shuts down the educational channels to the Chinese, the EU does the same; those geniuses will be forced to figure out things over and over again on paper.

You all rail against the woke culture and forget that the openness of higher education allows people to explore new avenues. You will never advance if you adhere to dogma. Every avenue in science is worth exploring, whether in social studies, gender studies, physical sciences, or anything. Nothing is sacred; nothing is taboo. Nothing is off-limits.

Let me give you just one word of advice, do not try to control other people's lives, no matter their age. If a person makes a life-altering decision, no matter how much it bothers you, it is not your business. I learned this early on as friends of my kids started doing it. It is between them, their parents, and their doctors. Do you believe one decides to change sex because it is cool? You think one "becomes "gay because it is easy. I am tired of the BS culture war against individuals who have complex issues to deal with. Those who make those decisions and go through with it did not do it because they had a trans teacher or read a book. They might have found out about it being an option through said sources, but it is still an f''n hard decision to make and carry through.
 
I remember a time when Japan could not make an automobile worth a shit.
I remember a time when the USA the only place for chip production.
I remember a time when China was not even on the map as a producer of anything and blown of as a failed country of despair.
I remember a time when the student became the master.

This move for feel good reasons. Long term it seems not a good idea as it forces them to advance faster.
Does China have fewer "bright" people than us? NO.
Have we been at it hard longer and have a lead? YES
Will they transform from cheap mass produced products to world class leaders and innovators? Ask Japan and GM how that happened.
Bob
Here is why not :)

 
Not sure it is just sheer numbers that matter. If you combine US capital with a million geniuses, I think it can stand up with the rest of the world's geniuses armed with paper and pencils. If the US shuts down the educational channels to the Chinese, the EU does the same; those geniuses will be forced to figure out things over and over again on paper.

You all rail against the woke culture and forget that the openness of higher education allows people to explore new avenues. You will never advance if you adhere to dogma. Every avenue in science is worth exploring, whether in social studies, gender studies, physical sciences, or anything. Nothing is sacred; nothing is taboo. Nothing is off-limits.

Let me give you just one word of advice, do not try to control other people's lives, no matter their age. If a person makes a life-altering decision, no matter how much it bothers you, it is not your business. I learned this early on as friends of my kids started doing it. It is between them, their parents, and their doctors. Do you believe one decides to change sex because it is cool? You think one "becomes "gay because it is easy. I am tired of the BS culture war against individuals who have complex issues to deal with. Those who make those decisions and go through with it did not do it because they had a trans teacher or read a book. They might have found out about it being an option through said sources, but it is still an f''n hard decision to make and carry through.
You make some great points.

My biggest dismay about woke culture is that it is intolerant of other beliefs and thoughts. In essence, it is the exact opposite of the openness that is so valued in higher education. Anybody that disagrees with the woke culture is cancelled.

That is the antithesis of what higher education should be.
 
I have Chinese nationals living next door .....the grandchildren get a free education courtesy of Queensland taxpayers.........anyhoo,why is the top school full of Chinese..........very simple......work ,work ,work ,work and more work......the Chinese children next door do some six hours of supervised study every day ,in addition to school with the optional extra hour ...........Australian children the same age are phones,games ,drugs ,and woke green nonsense......and sport ,sport is the be all and end all.
 
You make some great points.

My biggest dismay about woke culture is that it is intolerant of other beliefs and thoughts. In essence, it is the exact opposite of the openness that is so valued in higher education. Anybody that disagrees with the woke culture is cancelled.

That is the antithesis of what higher education should be.
How are they "canceled"? Are they no longer allowed to spew crap on any of their favorite media outlets or social networks? Are you afraid that they will be ridiculed by the ivory tower of academia? You have not dealt with academia if you believe that. That world is brutal; it is not for snowflakes. You are exposed to relentless attacks, no collegiality, and only the strong survive. On the other hand, do you know who wants to force people into bathrooms where they do not feel comfortable? Ban books, Ban things that are not even taught in k-12? Let's set one thing straight, intolerance runs deep on both fringes, and if you only get your information from one source only, you are on a fringe. I am not intolerant of religious people as long as they keep the f out of my bedroom, life and pocketbook. They can believe in whatever unicorns and rainbow farts they want to believe in, but I do not have to accept it or give validity to it. I am not going to tell them they are wrong; if they have not figured it out, there is nothing that will enlighten them. In exchange, I expect the same level of respect from them for my worldviews. After all, who wants to convince a bunch of flat-earthers that the ISS is real?
 
I am not intolerant of religious people as long as they keep the f out of my bedroom, life and pocketbook.

Dee, I know this isn't the discussion you want to have in this thread, so do yourself and most of us a favor and not swallow, rather just spit out the bait!
I agree with you that the right is too fucking often using religion as the way to "gather the herd", but I also equally agree with scsmith42 that this woke bullshit has got to stop!
I don't impose my religious beliefs ( you wouldn't even know if I had any ) on my children or their friends, but I also won't tolerate any of them imposing their own "woke" garbage on me.
With that said, this discussion is interesting and relevant enough for manufacturing, so let's not invite partizan bullshit to take it over shall we?
We've made it almost a month or so without a thread getting closed, how'bout aiming for a new record?
 
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