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Thread pull out load charts

Shadon

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Location
Southern Calif US
Its easy to find bolt sheer and pull out data, but I am having a hell of a time finding one for female threads in various materials (steel, Al, etc.)

Basically I am looking for the difference in pull out for a 1/2-13 in 1/2" steel plate *against* 1/2-13 in 3/4" steel plate. I am basing both on a 80% thread.

Anyone know of any tables or charts I can use for this?
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
Both of those examples will fail under tension at exactly the same load.

Once you go above one or two threads in the female thread, the male fastener
is the limiting part. If you were in, say, nylon, then the numbers would be different.
 

Shadon

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Location
Southern Calif US
Both of those examples will fail under tension at exactly the same load.

Once you go above one or two threads in the female thread, the male fastener
is the limiting part. If you were in, say, nylon, then the numbers would be different.

I forgot to mention, grade 8 bolts in mild steel, the plate is most certainly going to fail before the fastener.
 

magneticanomaly

Titanium
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
On Elk Mountain, West Virginia, USA
"pullout strength", which may be greater than tensile strength of the male fastener, will theoretically be pi x PD x % thread x length of engagement x shear strength of material, for a vee thread..

But it will vary a lot with cut vs rolled (formed) thread, grain orientation of material, and Young's modulus of male threaded part. Threads will wear and become weaker if the assembly is disassembled/reassembled/overtorqued/corroded.

If it is important, test, and choose suitable safety factor, and test again after ANY change in process or material.
 

Forrest Addy

Diamond
Joined
Dec 20, 2000
Location
Bremerton WA USA
Well these little added details can be important. You're right. You probably won't find a table that gives you reliable data for this specific case.

Assuming the tapped threads are champhered to the major diameter and the steel is 36,000 PSI yield in shear strength: work out the effective shear area and do the math.

I'm gonna take a WAG and call it about 20,000 lb per bolt. Tensile stength of a 1/2 - 13 Grade 8 bolt is listed as 21,300 ln. The plate MAY be more likely to fail but it's really too close to call. Materials have a range of speciified properties and when they are this close there is no telling which will fail first. The failure mode of a Grade 8 bolt in your tapped hole in A36 plate may be pull-out it may be a tensile neck-down to failure but it will be close.

The best an analysis will give you is an estimate. If hard data is needed you have to conduct physical tests to failure of samples from the actual plate and fasteners under consideration.
 

9100

Diamond
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Location
Webster Groves, MO
I have heard this "two threads are as strong as the bolt" platitude for all these years and my personal experience doesn't support it. For a concrete example, one time I mounted a bracket on the end of a hydraulic cylinder with the typical four rods through end caps and nuts. As I recall, the threads were 1/2-13 and the nuts were typical for that size, so there would have been six or seven threads engaged, maybe less. I would have to drive across town to check it, but I don't think the bracket was more than 3/16 thick so there would still probably be four threads engaged. It is on a molding machine clamp cylinder that is cycled, but within the pressure rating of the cylinder. After a few days running, it stripped the nuts out. The two threads line also neglects to specify whether they are coarse or fine threads, which obviously makes a difference. I also hear that after a couple of threads, clearance prevents loading of the threads beyond a certain point. Once you pass the yield point of the first threads, load will be transferred to ones farther on while the first ones will be contributing close to yield force if they are only deformed slightly. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, I will continue to look for at least a bolt diameter of engagement length.

Bill
 

richard newman

Titanium
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Location
rochester, ny
This become a little more complicated when the bolt and thread part are made of very different materials. For example - steel bolt in 6061 aluminum threads. Would be nice to have some sort of a chart for ballpark figures.

Would it be safe to just compare shear strength steel vs alum and multiply steel nut thread length by that factor?

Thread length in alum = strength of steel/strength of alum x length of steel nut ????
 

Gary E

Diamond
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Location
Houston, TX
Do some math using the 2 threads idea and I think you will soon find that it's all BS

Do the same math using 1.5 times the bolt dia in thread engagement and you will see that it is the rule of thumb...

So, your 1/2-13 bolt developes max strength witn 3/4 inch of threads holding.

Then there's the thread length I've seen on Straight Side Press tie rod instalations that blow the 1 1/2 times dia all out the window...

And to the original poster... Why are you not looking into the Machinery's Handbook for the table of safe loads for threads?... it'l save you a lot or hassle.... or are you trying to pull the threads out?...a drill will do that a lot faster.
 

smdubovsky

Hot Rolled
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Location
MD
Do the same math using 1.5 times the bolt dia...

And since one forgot to account for stretch of the bolt & threads you'll realize that one GREATLY overestimated the pull-out force w/ 1.5x engagement with the "same math". Bolts & threads stretch so the thread loading is not evenly divided (or linear) so its NOT a simple problem. "same math" doesn't apply (in either case.)

Go read the last 2 pages here (or google it for dozens of more examples):
http://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Article - Screw Threads Design.pdf

The first thread in their 7/8-9 grade 8 example carries 34% of the load even though w/ simple math w/ 6 threads would predict only 16%. Thats a 2:1 error. 1.5x engagement w/ their bolt would have resulted in 12 threads and a would be ~4:1 overestimation error.

The best point to remember out of the paper:
"Caution: It appears that one could theoretically increase the thread strength by increasing the length of engagement. However, as illustrated in the Load Distribution chart above, the first thread will be taking the majority of the applied load. For carbon steel fasteners (including tapped holes) the length of engagement would be limited to approximately one nominal diameter (approximately 1-1/2 times the diameter for aluminum). After that, there is no appreciable increase in strength. Once the applied load has exceeded the first thread’s capacity, it will fail and subsequently cause the remaining threads to fail in succession."
 

4GSR

Diamond
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Location
Victoria, Texas, USA
. Once the applied load has exceeded the first thread’s capacity, it will fail and subsequently cause the remaining threads to fail in succession."

I kinda sorta of dis agree with this.

I've seen many threads in tension in FEA models in the past years, and yes the first turn of the thread in full engagement does show higher stress, but each thread in engagement thereafter takes a slightly lessor amount of the load all the way to the last thread in engagement. But the addatives of each turn of thread of engagement aids in increasing the ability of hold loads much more than one turn will by itself. So having said that, the formula as magneticanomaly stated is almost correct.
According to "Shingly's" book for basic shear stress in a thread, or reversed, what load will it handle at it's failure point, it is (pi times basic pitch diameter times number of threads per inch in full engagement)divided by two. This is basic shear area of the thread in engagement. Basic shear of steel is .6 times ultimate yield. This times shear area=the load it will handle at shear with no factor of safety added. Singley's formula is based on a "square" thread form. There are other formulas out there that take in account thread flank angles, coeficient of friction, external thread or internal thread material strength, etc, etc.

Again, I'm not a license engineer, but many come to me for an answer.

Ken
 

Sidebite

Aluminum
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Location
Lomita, CA
Real world example of both side of the failure case.
All testing done on an Instron tensile test machine.

5/16-24 thread, bolt threads are rolled, nut threads are tapped.
Nut is ~6 threads deep, a little less than 1 D

Test 1:
Inconel 718 bolt HRC 44
Inconel 718 nut HRC 31

Nut fails at 10,100 Lb load (jumps thread)
Nut is now .022” shorter and .026” larger in diameter.
Bolt is ~0.020” longer

Test 2:
Inconel 718 bolt HRC 44
Inconel 718 nut HRC 44

Nut never fails at up to 13,000 Lb load, but bolt is obviously yielding so test is stopped.
Post test examination shows nut has not deformed at all when measured to
0.0001” accuracy, and threads gauge as new.
Bolt is ~0.100” longer

If I need to hold 8000 Lbs, (which I do) than either nut will work fine.

YMMV

Davis
 

magneticanomaly

Titanium
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
On Elk Mountain, West Virginia, USA
One reason we build machinery out of metal instead of brick or glass or wood, is that metals (generally) are ductile as well as elastic, , and work-harden. That is why long thread engagements are stronger than short, in static tension. The early threads deform, so that threads farther down see stress, too, but the threads near the top are still carrying near their yield stress.

But this is not good design practice, because deformation repeats with each dis/re-assembly cycle, with interference between deformed threads further distorting metal. Pretty soon parts won't go together any more, or you observe, "Threads are "stripped"! When did that happen?" They are often not actually stripped, but just chewed out by portions of the male and female threads no longer having matching forms and pitches.

4GSR must be misquoting Shingly, because shear strength of a thread is independent of pitch. Fine threads IN THEORY are stronger because PD and root area are larger. But manufacturing tolerances, and rust, and wear, are more critical because .001" is a bigger % of engagement on a fine than a coarse thread. I stand by my formula, but I will say that "% engagement is a half-assed proxy for the percentage of the theoretical cylinder that is actually there to carry shear.. And threads can fail in flow, and by bursting of the nut.

That is for-why we TEST and use SAFETY FACTORS. Only to God is engineering an exact science, We down here are just fudging about with rules of thumb.

That bolt-doctor website is very good

We're having fun, but OP still has not said what he is building.
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
For the materials involved here, either thickness will give the same ultimate
strength and the failure will be, in both cases, that the bolt will fail at the
point where it enters the first thead in the plate. That's where the stress
concentrates.

Attempts at calculating the ultimate strength of the bolt will fail because
they will not consider that stress concentration factor which depending
on the type of thread and manufacture, can be factors of nearly two.

If you really care about this, test one to ultimate fail on an instron. Anything
else is simply going to be hand-waving.

Read Caroll Smith's excellent treatise on this: "Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing."

It's a good bible.
 

rbent

Stainless
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Location
Kansas
Reminds me of a sign that is on our vintage Riehle testing machine.

"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions"
 

Shadon

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Location
Southern Calif US
A36 plate .50 thick /w 1/2-13 tapped (cut) threads /w grade 8 bolt installed

*against*

A36 plate .750 thick /w 1/2-13 tapped (cut) threads /w grade 8 bolt installed

this is a straight pull load of 10K with load moments of up to x4 (40K)

There are 4 bolts per assembly with equal pull load.

Think I'm headed back to a destuctive test, already did one, but without this part attached.

Was hoping for an easy answer, but guess there isnt one.
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
"Think I'm headed back to a destuctive test,..."

If possible do take the time to post up the results - everyone on this
thread is quite interested.

Thanks.
 

Shadon

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Location
Southern Calif US
For those of you wanting to get a clearer picture, this is what has already been tested, just the way it is pictured in this thread. Now this was a simple 2 bolt angle for attaching the hitch ball to a 1/2" steel plate, this assembly held to 68K before coming apart. http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/1674884-post29.html

Now the need has come that requires a bigger drop than a standard 3" .... 6" and 9" models are already made, just untested. These drop adaptors use 4 bolt holes instead of the 2 as seen in the standard model.

When it comes to selling product to the private sector, I dont want anything to chance.
 

Tony Wells

Banned
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Location
Tyler, Texas USA
Anyone ever hear of a spiralock thread? I found these locking taps in the drawer a long time ago (aerospace co), and I googled it to see what they were.

Adds another level of confusion to this 'thread'. ;) (yes, pun intended)

http://machinedesign.com/article/ramp-breaks-common-thread-of-fastener-failures-1012

Load Distribution | Spiralock


Used to run some parts with that thread for the Big Red Oil Company (H********n). High dollar inserts at the time, I guess considered a premium thread.
 

rbent

Stainless
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Location
Kansas
I would be interested in seeing fatigue testing on the hitch.

Is the testing something you do in house or sub out?
 








 
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