Tilt frame bandsaws

[SteelWerksMH]

I always thought tilt frame’s were the king of mitering bandsaws but after owning one I‘m not so sure.

I own a hyd-mech dm12 horizontal miter bandsaw and it is by far the best bandsaw I’ve ever used. I’ve owned and used many horizontal mitering saws,( more than 10 different saws). With the hyd-mech I can switch between 90 and 45 degree cuts in 5 seconds with the built in detents and it is dead accurate. That’s the main reason it’s been my favorite saw, But I’ve always wanted a tilt frame.

I recently purchased a He&m v100 tilt frame bandsaw. After using it I don’t really understand the purpose of a tilt frame saw. Setting up 45’s takes forever, I have to get out a 45 degree square and it take several minutes to square it up perfectly, same with 90 degree cuts, I’m assuming the Marvel tilt frames are the same way?

I thought maybe the footprint of a tilt frame is smaller than a horizontal but that doesn’t seem to be the case. I owned an Ellis 3000 with similar capacity that had a smaller footprint.

Also I don’t see myself ever using the v100 as a vertical bandsaw as the 1” blade can’t really be used for contouring.

I guess my question is what are the advantages of a tilt frame saw (if any) vs a conventional horizontal mitering saw.

 

[Clive603]

Um. Its a newer "more fashionable" thing so they can charge more for it.

Seriously about the only major intrinsic gain I can see is better work support if you are doing compound mitres. Conventional horizontal saws tend to have work holding and blade support problems if you are trying to angle cut in more than one plane.

Higher table is said to give better ergonomics. But if that were a major thing some folks would build horizontals on taller bases. Probably only an issue with smaller stuff you can hand load. A forklift doesn't care!

As with all machines its a question of horses for courses and making sure you bucks get spent on the right bang for what you do. Spending more for capabilities you won't use is just plain silly.

Sounds like He&M are taking the piss. Needing a set-square to re-set an industrial machine in this day an age is plain insulting. For something sold on an angle cut versatility instant set detents for the popular angles should be standard. Maybe verify once after installation to ensure nothing moved during transit but otherwise should be on the detent. I'd expect at least an accurately calibrated adjuster and, preferably, provision for a second detent plate or whatever to set custom angles if I have a regular job at odd tilts. If it's the deluxe model I want accurate power auto setting. By display and dial, not a poxy touch screen.

Clive

 

[DDoug]

I always thought tilt frame’s were the king of mitering bandsaws but after owning one I‘m not so sure.

I own a hyd-mech dm12 horizontal miter bandsaw and it is by far the best bandsaw I’ve ever used. I’ve owned and used many horizontal mitering saws,( more than 10 different saws). With the hyd-mech I can switch between 90 and 45 degree cuts in 5 seconds with the built in detents and it is dead accurate. That’s the main reason it’s been my favorite saw, But I’ve always wanted a tilt frame.

I recently purchased a He&m v100 tilt frame bandsaw. After using it I don’t really understand the purpose of a tilt frame saw. Setting up 45’s takes forever, I have to get out a 45 degree square and it take several minutes to square it up perfectly, same with 90 degree cuts, I’m assuming the Marvel tilt frames are the same way?

I thought maybe the footprint of a tilt frame is smaller than a horizontal but that doesn’t seem to be the case. I owned an Ellis 3000 with similar capacity that had a smaller footprint.

Also I don’t see myself ever using the v100 as a vertical bandsaw as the 1” blade can’t really be used for contouring.

I guess my question is what are the advantages of a tilt frame saw (if any) vs a conventional horizontal mitering saw.

Marvel takes up too much real estate in back.
So I agree with your statement.
Others don't take up so much space, and it appears the addition of some hard stops at 45 would help greatly.

 

[memphisjed]

Tilt frame verticals are the best. Vertical saws cut faster and straighter because of in cut chip management.
Yes, they have big butts that tend to take up real estate.

I couldn’t find a hyd mech v100- no help on its swing. The v-18 (not vw 18 toy) has a protractor scale behind the frame that is accurate to 1/8 of a degree. The swing is slow, not snail slow- still slow. The newer pedinghaus saws you can take a nap while it hunts for position. There really is no excuse in this age way they are slow to position- other than market pays more for slow servos instead of hydraulic arms.

 

[Ries]

Tilt frame verticals are the best. Vertical saws cut faster and straighter because of in cut chip management.
Yes, they have big butts that tend to take up real estate.

I couldn’t find a hyd mech v100- no help on its swing. The v-18 (not vw 18 toy) has a protractor scale behind the frame that is accurate to 1/8 of a degree. The swing is slow, not snail slow- still slow. The newer pedinghaus saws you can take a nap while it hunts for position. There really is no excuse in this age way they are slow to position- other than market pays more for slow servos instead of hydraulic arms.

Considering that a Hyd Mech V18-45 is $65,000, and some models are more like $100k, it better be the best...
Looks like a nice saw, although I would need 20 foot runout tables left and right, and some sort of overhead crane to load it. The OP was complaining about a HEM V100, which, from what I see online, has power tilt, and digital readout of angle- so he seems to be saying that after using that, he still has to use a square to fine tune it?

 

[EmGo]

I'm not a saw guy but the neighbors had a Marvel. It was a fab shop. They ran that thing 7 hours a day 5 days a week and some weekends, loved it. Switched from upright to 45* all the time, left and right and whatever. Cut tubing, solids, square, round, stainless, structural, alloy, never a glitch or a whimper. Parts feeder was even accurate.

I dunno about these bitch sessions, seemed like a pretty good machine to me.

 

[Rob F.]

Um. Its a newer "more fashionable" thing so they can charge more for it.

My marvel #8 is far from "newer" it is in fact a genuine antique, being more than 100 yrs old and one of the very first ones made.
It was made sometime between 1917 and 1922, Marvel told me that pre '22 there were no serial numbers yet.
I dont have any problems tilting the frame for angles or square cuts. and yes it does take up some space.
The only issue I have is it takes 3/4" blades and if I push it a little the blade slips off the drive wheel.....

 

[boslab]

Suppose they were a reflection of the Ship saws used for contouring long timber, they looked elegant as I believe the saw would be slewed during the cut, never used one btw!, but they do look cool.
I’ve only used a marvel once, in its defence it was well worn!
But it still worked
Mark

 

[memphisjed]

Considering that a Hyd Mech V18-45 is $65,000, and some models are more like $100k, it better be the best...
Looks like a nice saw, although I would need 20 foot runout tables left and right, and some sort of overhead crane to load it. The OP was complaining about a HEM V100, which, from what I see online, has power tilt, and digital readout of angle- so he seems to be saying that after using that, he still has to use a square to fine tune it?

Do not look up what a new marvel cost...
I like hem saws as a whole- agree not sure why you would need a square after calibrating readout. If the encoder/readout isn’t there op can get a cheap phone and use a level app with angle readout as a dro. I did that on our old old old marvel with crank handle feeds.

 

[SteelWerksMH]

Considering that a Hyd Mech V18-45 is $65,000, and some models are more like $100k, it better be the best...
Looks like a nice saw, although I would need 20 foot runout tables left and right, and some sort of overhead crane to load it. The OP was complaining about a HEM V100, which, from what I see online, has power tilt, and digital readout of angle- so he seems to be saying that after using that, he still has to use a square to fine tune it?

Sorry, I forgot to mention that the HEM v100 I purchased is an older model that does not have power tilt.

 

[DDoug]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that the HEM v100 I purchased is an older model that does not have power tilt.

So it was not a like for like comparison after all....