Timken's now made in China?

[Gordon Heaton]

Chinese company will print anything on the box that you want. . .

Absolutely. And, you have to watch and test constantly or they'll make substitutions in materials and processes and you won't know until failures start showing up. Its obvious that the chinese have extremely high levels of technology, expertise and manufacturing capabilities but its also seems they have no qualms about 'fudging' here and there.

 

[EmGo]

... it also seems they have no qualms about 'fudging' here and there.

Does anybody ? From the top - remember the 737 Max deal ? Or the bottom - I forget if it was Delta or United that figured out they could save $40,000/year by cutting back from two olives to one on the salad. So they did.

Everybody is busy fucking their customers these days. And if they don't, Wall Street will disembowel them.

Something very basic is wrong with society.

 

[woodchuckNJ]

Does anybody ? From the top - remember the 737 Max deal ? Or the bottom - I forget if it was Delta or United that figured out they could save $40,000/year by cutting back from two olives to one on the salad. So they did.

Everybody is busy fucking their customers these days. And if they don't, Wall Street will disembowel them.

Something very basic is wrong with society.

yep, it's not a Chineese things. I worked in a wind tunnel facility back in the 70s for a summer. They were changing the numbers so that it looked better on paper. I asked questions and was told to shut up. Eventually I was taken aside by someone who explained that if this died early, people would be out of jobs.. so they made it look better... They would let the company know, but the pentagon and congress would get the modified data. I bailed on becoming an engineer. I had, and still have high ideals.

I keep seeing shit like that all the time. On my last job the CEO kept telling customers a lie.. Then when I sat with the customers to deliver the goods, I would have to tell them the truth. I kept asking why do this. They get all pissed off when they find out, and you constantly leave me out to be the bad guy. His response was if he told the truth they wouldn't buy our stuff. I lost all respect for him.

 

[CarbideBob]

How long ago did Timken go to China? Seems like quite a while back.
With the millions of bearings produced since then is there any proof the quality is lower?
The brand is still respected.
Biggest thing that sucks about this to me is the delivery dates on the top end super high precision stuff.
I think they know how to make bearings and run a plant doing such no matter where located.
Bob

 

[EmGo]

Biggest thing that sucks about this to me is the delivery dates on the top end super high precision stuff.

And those come out of England, not the US. So much for misplaced faith in corporations ...

 

[Corn]

Chinese company will print anything on the box that you want.

"You pick color, you pay cash now."

Exactly. Got this from Aliexpress. Maybe from a batch which was ordered by some company? Anyhow, you can't trust what the prints say..


Edit: sorry off topic, this has nothing to do with Timken or bearings..

 

[EmGo]

Exactly. Got this from Aliexpress. Maybe from a batch which was ordered by some company?

Hard to know, unless you investigate. I know several Germans doing stuff in China, that box doesn't say "Made in Germany", just says "Germany". Germans aren't too shy to plaster the Germany reputation on stuff they make locally either.

I know of an Italian company that claims to be hooked up to Brembo, trying to sell Chinese knockoffs in China to various car dealers. Like, how dumb do they think people are ? In China, people know when they are buying fakes. Trying to fool them is like teaching grandma to suck eggs ...

Entertaining

 

[Corn]

Actually if you look closer, lower left corner says "Made in Germany" below the logo. Not very visible due to that part of picture not so clear..

 

[EmGo]

Actually if you look closer, lower left corner says "Made in Germany" below the logo. Not very visible due to that part of picture not so clear..

I need new eyes

Did some hunting, the only ref I could find to "DTEL" is a place called "banggood" out of Hong Kong. They are not a producer of anything, they 'source' stuff. They also hide who they are and where they are located pretty good, they must use bat-sonar because they fly by night.

You can tell they are not mainland Chinese, because normal China sites always plaster every certificate they ever got on their website, plus photos of every smiling director they have sitting at a big desk.

Probably fake. Play with the sharks, get a little nip now and again

 

[pavt]

And those come out of England, not the US. So much for misplaced faith in corporations ...

Unfortunately I learned all this the hard way about 30 yrs ago (rust belt native). Putting your faith in Coprporate America (the big guys) is just as pointless as putting your faith in Congress. And often for the same reason. What is wrong with society, is that there is no *honor* any more -- only money.

 

[CarbideBob]

All of you that have been in Timken's many plants around the world please raise your hands and tell us the differences in QA.
I will guess crickets in the night.
Bob

 

[woodchuckNJ]

I don't know, I am experiencing an issue with one of the bearings. It is getting slightly noisy. I would not have expected that.. So it's possible one of the timken's has started failing already. It's also possible it's nothing. I just don't like the sound.

Time will tell.

BTW this is on a used Jet benchtop Grinder that I picked up. it was full cast iron, including guards, so it was worth the few bucks for it.

 

[john.k]

I saw explained some years ago by a retired Timken engineer."There is no difference in the manufacturing process,however the steels available in China and India have a higher level of microinclusions .....this factor limits bearing life,but the bearings are still easily able to pass the required endurance tests."

 

[CarbideBob]

I saw explained some years ago by a retired Timken engineer."There is no difference in the manufacturing process,however the steels available in China and India have a higher level of microinclusions .....this factor limits bearing life,but the bearings are still easily able to pass the required endurance tests."

Here it comes.... I knew someone with the title of engineer for many years.

 

[john.k]

Six months ago ,i couldnt spel engineer....now I is one.......or .....six months ago I wasnt president.....now I is one!....but stil cant spel it!

 

[SeymourDumore]

I saw explained some years ago by a retired Timken engineer."There is no difference in the manufacturing process,however the steels available in China and India have a higher level of microinclusions .....this factor limits bearing life,but the bearings are still easily able to pass the required endurance tests."

Can't speak for the situation today, but some 10+ years ago I was tasked by a local ball supplier to WireEDM a boatload of balls, different sizes in 52100 and Carbide.
The job was to cut them twice into two partial spheres and a .1" thick slice in the middle.
The balls were - to a naked eye - flawless for finish, right on size and fit for the specific grade ( 25 and 50 ), but a good amount of the Carbide ones
had voids inside ( literally, small holes ), while some of the 52100 ones I couldn't even cut through with the wire due to imperfections in the material!


The parts were purchased from a US supplier of precision balls with a very good reputation.
Well, after a bunch of metallurgical investigation and inspection, it was discovered that the original balls were originated in China!
What happened was that the US supplier purchased a shitton of finished, but oversized balls from China, and then in their own facility here in the US finish lapped them to meet the grade requirements.

Again, that was like 10-12 years ago, may or may not be the case today....

 

[john.k]

The first Chinese ball bearings to hit the market here were loose balls for bicycle hubs......the Chinese balls were like 6d a packet ,lot cheaper than English balls .......so I fitted both hubs ......could actually hear the balls crunching up as I rode along .....novel excuse for being late for school.

 

[EmGo]

The parts were purchased from a US supplier of precision balls with a very good reputation.

We were involved in supplying people who make bearings, in China. Big bearings, 3 meters. Guy who spent several months with us was in fact the plant manager for a very well-known US manufacturer of bearings. So tit for tat (and I keep a few in reserve):

Problem came up with their bearings. Helicopters falling out of the sky size problem. So they put together a group to figure out why. Start at A, go to B, C, D.

At one point they found that an accounting decision had been made to change suppliers for certain stainless steel balls. Off to the supplier's shop to investigate.

Multiple engineers in the minivan, everything looked hunky-dory except our buddy the factory guy wasn't happy. He had realworld experience making parts. The subzero freezer was nowhere near big enough to cryo the volume of balls they'd been shipping.

End of story, obviously they hadn't froze those balls long enough or some of them at all. In service they'd heat up, expand in a way they weren't supposed to, and seize the bearing, which had a negative effect on the flight characteristics. Them rotors are supposed to keep turning no matter what.

All of this by US companies in the continental United States, no parts from Roosha, China, Zimbabwe, or Mexico.

Hence, US-made parts are shit ?

I bet anyone who has been in any kind of industry anywhere has similar stories. In fact I was just reading one about cycloidal teeth and detonators for WW II bombs and such. Total fuckup. USA, top to bottom.

When I first started out I was perfect but after a few errors here and there, I've become slower to smarm at other people.

 

[thermite]

Six months ago ,i couldnt spel engineer....now I is one.......or .....six months ago I wasnt president.....now I is one!....but stil cant spel it!

Aye. Bearings out of China that MIGHT fail, early, are one thing.

And surely, US makers have screwed the pooch as often as anyone, too. "US made" is only a geographic origin. Not a quality level.

A GOVERNMENT assembled by China out of proven faulty goods that had ALREADY failed is where we REALLY bought empty promises instead of something that we could at least patch up.

What TF would an auditor "investigate" to do with a Joe Buyed-in operation?

It's the "Invasion of the body snatchers" playing out right on our present-day screens! Empty husks!

We were meant to be f**ked.

We are being f**ked.

We are even being BILLED for it!

It is all in precise accordance to the Purchase Order the voters approved!

What is there to bitch about?

Oh. Soon won't be able to AFFORD bearings at all?

Grievance denied. Won't NEED 'em! WTF would a FOOD ANIMAL need "bearings" FOR?

That, too, was in the Dumbasscraptic specifications the voters approved.

Contract stands.

JF pretend we are still British, pray for lube, and suffer it.

They suffer it well-enough. How hard could it be?

 

[pavt]

All of you that have been in Timken's many plants around the world please raise your hands and tell us the differences in QA.
I will guess crickets in the night.
Bob

Guess we found the globalist traitor.

I know damn well the chinese can build anything just as well as anyone else. But they probably can't do it any cheaper. Quality costs, no matter where you go. Input costs are similar.

The problem most have with china made is the fact that cheap-shit american businessmen exported all their jobs, and then re-imported crap based on price, not quality. And then pocketed the difference both ways.

The minute you start demanding the same quality level, those import-export businesses lose their advantage completely, and the business model tanks.

BTW, I've been in a few plants, including the one that makes your carbide. I did their maintenance for a living. So uh, yeah.