woodchuckNJ
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2014
- Location
- NJ
SPEAK IT BROTHER... that is exactly the problem. That and no parts to fix the crap.
all throw it out landfill junk in a short time.
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Timken's now made in China?
- Thread starter woodchuckNJ
- Start date
- Replies 51
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SPEAK IT BROTHER... that is exactly the problem. That and no parts to fix the crap.
all throw it out landfill junk in a short time.
thermite
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2011
Got that shot backwards.
The JOBS lost were but the byproduct. Victim of the REAL money chasing BIG advantage.
- PRC has a mere fraction of the US & State TAX burden.
- PRC has a mere fraction of the environmental cost burden.
- PCC has a mere fraction of the PAPERWORK filing burden.
- PRC space and HVAC cost a mere fraction of that in the USA.
- PRC transport costs a mere fraction of that in the USA
- PRC then learned to Execute to a requirement far faster.
- PCR has a mere fraction of the social costs.
You do NOT want to be tryng to live off "unemployment" benefits in a so-called "cradle to grave SECURITY" ... "Communist" country!
Their "hood badge" claims they are run by "The Party of Public Assets".
Stolen assets, basically.
Functionally, it's the same feudal system it has been for over 3,000 years.
Those who have, get.
Same as the one being put in place HERE, now, fellow coolies.
Why did you think tech lords supported Joe Buyed-in?
Bought-in ... no longer the least whisper of interference with their game.
EmGo
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
- Location
- Over the River and Through the Woods
This is incorrect, because the entire structure of the chinese economy is different. China will always (okay, always in my puny human lifespan) have lower costs because they have different goals.
The goal of the china government is to make society run smoothly. Money is a tool which they use to do that. The goal of the US government is to pass the most money possible to the people with power.
In China, poor people can have a life. In the US, if you are poor you are shit and you will be bled to death to support the wealthy. At some periods in time China had this too - under the guomindang, in the late Qing, other historical periods. But what it always leads to is collapse. The US is in a period of collapse because of greed.
Anyway, abbreviated answer here is a lot of things do not deserve the kind of money it costs in the US. So many things are a total ripoff because everyone - every person, every company, every government bureau - is supposed to "make a prooooofit".
This is stupid Milton Friedman garbage. Life is not about a prooooofit. You don't make a profit taking a dump - but if you don't do it, you die. There are a lot of functions that are costs, not profits. That's just how it is. If you ignore that, you end up with a society that can't support itself because taking a shit costs so much you can't afford to exist.
China, at least at this time, is not doing that. The US is. Therefore, costs in China are way lower than they are in the US. It's not cheap labor. It's the entire system.
Have been trying to avoid this but many of Mr Thermite's conclusions came from reading that famous book, Piles on the Road by Squatton Leavitt. Anecdotes are not data but better than fiction :
Probably not. There's a 17% value-added tax right off the bat. Income taxes are worse, and more fairly assigned, although there's also more ways around them. The good part about that tho, is the subterfuges are available to poor people as well. It's just as easy for a normal worker to dodge taxes as for a billionaire. And they do slam the biggies in the spirit of "make an example, scare the rest", e.g. Fan bing bing recently. I think her fine was a 900 million rmb ?
It would be hard to say, really, but my sense is that the middle class in the US is taxed more harshly, while the big guys get off way easier. Have friends at Beijing Shell, they don't escape China taxes the way they do in the US.
Maybe or maybe not. As of the past few years they have been spending bazillions on pollution stuff. You can definitely see the result in the bigger cities. Who pays for that ? Probably impossible to determine, the accounting is so arcane. At the end of the day tho, it has to come out of the system somewhere.
But, and this is a big but, what do they get for their money in comparison ? How much is spent on big stuff vs how much is spent on hassling five man shops for accidentally spilling a quart of turpentine ? I know that in the bay area, every single city has permits allowing them to dump 100,000 gallons an hour for 24 hours or more, untreated sewage into the bay. Free. Yet you and me, with a single 5 gallon bucket of grinding swarf, tip that over by accident and it's a bazillion dollar fine. Who is served by that crap ?
Dream on. You can't take a pee in China without seventeen trips to various bureaus for certificates. And they will never tell you everything you need upfront, it's a step by step process and a long one, for anything. Six months to do the smallest thing is normal. You haven't got a clue about what paperwork is like. Not even a sniff of a clue.
Space ? yes. The US is a rentier economy, vicious landlords screwing everyone else, with the help and collusion of the government. A layer of leeches sucking the blood of the economy, for sure. China had that in the guomindang years, that's a big part of the reason the CCP won the propaganda war. KMT is a pile of shit.
HVAC, can't say. The climate is a lot hotter, air conditioning is going to be more. Heating in the northeast US might even it up tho. Although a lot of industy in north China, too, where heating is a problem. Maybe even-steven ? I don't think this is a big advantage either way.
Absolutely. UPS et al are a ripoff. Total ripoff.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. They tend to go head-over-heels in one direction, then decide that was wrong and head off in another at the same speed.
But they do make a decision to do it ! then actually get it done. They built 10,000 miles of 250 mph trains in less time than it took California to decide what color the trains they still don't have should be. SF is building a two block long subway. Every time we go the assist laughs heartily to see the same old hole in the ground. Been five years or so, during that time Shanghai has built five or ten 50 mile extensions to the 500 miles of existing subway we have.
When I was younger I could always think, "well, maybe our stuff isn't as highly engineered as German, and not as finely detailed as Japanese, but it works, works well, and we get it done !"
So much for that .... memories of an old coot, eh ?
This is total crap. Yeah I know, anecdotes, but better than dickcheese here has :
I personally know and visit and do holiday dinners with seven people retired on "social insurance" (what people call it in China.) One accountant, one q/c factory guy, one office lady, one vice mayor, one did something in the tobacco stores, one did something in a plating factory, one grandpa I don't know what he did (altho he left the red earth so no longer collecting benefits.) Every one of them doing as well as they did when working, except they have free time. (So three of them picked up part time jobs to keep busy and feeling ... productive ? Involved ? Or, and I have my suspicions, they want to get outside away from the demanding older wife. Ah, peace and quiet, smoking with the other old coots, telling lies and playing mah jiang or cards, what a nasty life
Retirement is at 55 for women and 60 for men, by the way. And it's pretty much mandatory unless you are a big talent. Even if you want to keep working, it's pretty much bye-bye, come see us some time. Lots and lots of older guys take jobs as 'bao an' - security guards, sort of - gate guards, line-straighteners and ticket-handers in the post office and banks, that kind of thing. Most of them are helpful and pretty cool.
Also, many of the Assist's friends parents are retired, same stories. They are all pretty happy and definitely well-fed and housed and medicalled. Several have been on more tourist trips to more places around the world than I have (although I can't imagine going all the way to egypt, then refusing to pay the $100 extra to go through the biggest museum. Yes it's a ripoff but jeeze ... cheapskates to the end.)
Zo, this particular claim is total garbage. 100% untrue.
Stoopid, dishonest, ignorant pigshit which I will not dignify with an answer.
john.k
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2012
- Location
- Brisbane Qld Australia
Japanese stuff was a joke at one time .....then they got on top of the junk exports,exporters had to have a licence from a new ministry MITI,first high quality stuff I recall was cameras ....Jap cameras were best in the world....Jap lenses were best ,and affordable as well.......Once jap cars were a joke ,they looked like an out of date Yank tank from the side ,from the back ,they were four feet wide! Under the bonnet was a copy of an Austin or Standard motor.......next thing you know GM Holden are crying foul cause the Japs are including a (gasp) free radio in every car,and people are buying Toyota s and Nissans by the shipload.And Ford and GM are still trying to sell accessory radios that cost another $50 on top of the price of the car.
thermite
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2011
Weh! The affinity for pigs is new. Go figure some gal has finally dumped you?
Your stock in trade, the rest, actually challenged? Oy! The humanity!
Only because you cannot .... given you "have but a fraction" ....of the experience you claim! Besides, who on EARTH would lend you one Chinese cent's worth of "dignity" to work with?
Everything you think you know is what they WANT you to believe.
May as well just link their propaganda publications so we can read it without your errors!
'Splain, please, how such an egalitarian, utopian share-fairly "communist" society is producing personal US-dollar equivalent Billionaires at a faster rate than the USA - steadily closing the gap, IOW:
List of countries by number of billionaires - Wikipedia
Scroll down to Hurun Global Rich List, willyah?
Sorry. Propagandists don't get a cut.
Feudal System, naif Spring and Autumn period to present-day... and going forward. Same as your chubby-buddy in DPRK. "Communist" is only the hood-badge.
天真的廢話藝術家
寄件者
Last edited:
Trueturning
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2019
This is incorrect, because the entire structure of the chinese economy is different. China will always (okay, always in my puny human lifespan) have lower costs because they have different goals.
The goal of the china government is to make society run smoothly. Money is a tool which they use to do that. The goal of the US government is to pass the most money possible to the people with power.
In China, poor people can have a life. In the US, if you are poor you are shit and you will be bled to death to support the wealthy. At some periods in time China had this too - under the guomindang, in the late Qing, other historical periods. But what it always leads to is collapse. The US is in a period of collapse because of greed.
Anyway, abbreviated answer here is a lot of things do not deserve the kind of money it costs in the US. So many things are a total ripoff because everyone - every person, every company, every government bureau - is supposed to "make a prooooofit".
This is stupid Milton Friedman garbage. Life is not about a prooooofit. You don't make a profit taking a dump - but if you don't do it, you die. There are a lot of functions that are costs, not profits. That's just how it is. If you ignore that, you end up with a society that can't support itself because taking a shit costs so much you can't afford to exist.
China, at least at this time, is not doing that. The US is. Therefore, costs in China are way lower than they are in the US. It's not cheap labor. It's the entire system.
Have been trying to avoid this but many of Mr Thermite's conclusions came from reading that famous book, Piles on the Road by Squatton Leavitt. Anecdotes are not data but better than fiction :
Probably not. There's a 17% value-added tax right off the bat. Income taxes are worse, and more fairly assigned, although there's also more ways around them. The good part about that tho, is the subterfuges are available to poor people as well. It's just as easy for a normal worker to dodge taxes as for a billionaire. And they do slam the biggies in the spirit of "make an example, scare the rest", e.g. Fan bing bing recently. I think her fine was a 900 million rmb ?
It would be hard to say, really, but my sense is that the middle class in the US is taxed more harshly, while the big guys get off way easier. Have friends at Beijing Shell, they don't escape China taxes the way they do in the US.
Maybe or maybe not. As of the past few years they have been spending bazillions on pollution stuff. You can definitely see the result in the bigger cities. Who pays for that ? Probably impossible to determine, the accounting is so arcane. At the end of the day tho, it has to come out of the system somewhere.
But, and this is a big but, what do they get for their money in comparison ? How much is spent on big stuff vs how much is spent on hassling five man shops for accidentally spilling a quart of turpentine ? I know that in the bay area, every single city has permits allowing them to dump 100,000 gallons an hour for 24 hours or more, untreated sewage into the bay. Free. Yet you and me, with a single 5 gallon bucket of grinding swarf, tip that over by accident and it's a bazillion dollar fine. Who is served by that crap ?
Dream on. You can't take a pee in China without seventeen trips to various bureaus for certificates. And they will never tell you everything you need upfront, it's a step by step process and a long one, for anything. Six months to do the smallest thing is normal. You haven't got a clue about what paperwork is like. Not even a sniff of a clue.
Space ? yes. The US is a rentier economy, vicious landlords screwing everyone else, with the help and collusion of the government. A layer of leeches sucking the blood of the economy, for sure. China had that in the guomindang years, that's a big part of the reason the CCP won the propaganda war. KMT is a pile of shit.
HVAC, can't say. The climate is a lot hotter, air conditioning is going to be more. Heating in the northeast US might even it up tho. Although a lot of industy in north China, too, where heating is a problem. Maybe even-steven ? I don't think this is a big advantage either way.
Absolutely. UPS et al are a ripoff. Total ripoff.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. They tend to go head-over-heels in one direction, then decide that was wrong and head off in another at the same speed.
But they do make a decision to do it ! then actually get it done. They built 10,000 miles of 250 mph trains in less time than it took California to decide what color the trains they still don't have should be. SF is building a two block long subway. Every time we go the assist laughs heartily to see the same old hole in the ground. Been five years or so, during that time Shanghai has built five or ten 50 mile extensions to the 500 miles of existing subway we have.
When I was younger I could always think, "well, maybe our stuff isn't as highly engineered as German, and not as finely detailed as Japanese, but it works, works well, and we get it done !"
So much for that .... memories of an old coot, eh ?
This is total crap. Yeah I know, anecdotes, but better than dickcheese here has :
I personally know and visit and do holiday dinners with seven people retired on "social insurance" (what people call it in China.) One accountant, one q/c factory guy, one office lady, one vice mayor, one did something in the tobacco stores, one did something in a plating factory, one grandpa I don't know what he did (altho he left the red earth so no longer collecting benefits.) Every one of them doing as well as they did when working, except they have free time. (So three of them picked up part time jobs to keep busy and feeling ... productive ? Involved ? Or, and I have my suspicions, they want to get outside away from the demanding older wife. Ah, peace and quiet, smoking with the other old coots, telling lies and playing mah jiang or cards, what a nasty life
Retirement is at 55 for women and 60 for men, by the way. And it's pretty much mandatory unless you are a big talent. Even if you want to keep working, it's pretty much bye-bye, come see us some time. Lots and lots of older guys take jobs as 'bao an' - security guards, sort of - gate guards, line-straighteners and ticket-handers in the post office and banks, that kind of thing. Most of them are helpful and pretty cool.
Also, many of the Assist's friends parents are retired, same stories. They are all pretty happy and definitely well-fed and housed and medicalled. Several have been on more tourist trips to more places around the world than I have (although I can't imagine going all the way to egypt, then refusing to pay the $100 extra to go through the biggest museum. Yes it's a ripoff but jeeze ... cheapskates to the end.)
Zo, this particular claim is total garbage. 100% untrue.
Stoopid, dishonest, ignorant pigshit which I will not dignify with an answer.
Wow.
Interesting stuff EG. Most of it makes sense especially if I could agree with your outlook on profits. It is the case that profits are driving Americans to invest big money in China. In doing this the real costs of doing this plus the damage done to Americans making a living are clearly negative.
Your eval on the old and retirement are accurate in several ways. If we did not believe in making profit then we would be a drag for China something that even a atheistic Chinese Communist should learn as a rule is the concept ….”In God we trust all others pay cash”.
Largely good observations about the so called trickle up thing we have here. It does not trickle very often in reality it flows.
Needless to say it is China which has worked closely with American business. I know and you know that without following a capitalistic model which values profit the Communists there would still be corrupt oppressors of their countrymen.
Only they learned they had to give something and people want reward because every human does. Prosperity should not be so greedy that essentially it in fact begins to look much like Neo feudalism.
I recall the starvation there in China. Nope they did not require no stinking profit for motivation to produce food they did it for Mao and his sweetheart.
“Still unlike the Russians the Chinese have never yet faced their past under such a man as him.”
They do not have to give all effort into earning profit either as China has grown so fast skipping a lot of R&D and innovation because it is easier to acquire it just the same. Different legal environment they have no remorse taking whatever they want. American business have allowed this. I get it.
I appreciate just the same your evaluation of this. That I do not completely agree with your conclusions and direction is really no biggie. We do not have everything perfect EG and neither does China. There are still massive amounts of money to be made doing business with the US. You don’t believe it look at Afghanistan.
john.k
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2012
- Location
- Brisbane Qld Australia
When millions were starving,Kruschev mentioned it to Mao ........Mao famously said "The skies are still full of sparrows,how can anyone be starving"
EmGo
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
- Location
- Over the River and Through the Woods
You might replace that famously with allegedly ... seems real unlikely that anyone who would have been in a position to hear this alleged quote would ever say anything publicly like this.
Besides which, I never heard of Nikita being concerned about anyone starving ....
Betcha ten bucks this is a phony quote.
john.k
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2012
- Location
- Brisbane Qld Australia
Supposedly the cause of the breakup between China and the USSR.
EmGo
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
- Location
- Over the River and Through the Woods
Cute story but for about a hundred reasons I'd have to think 'no'.
Top of the list would be that I can't imagine Nikita getting all warm and fuzzy googoo-hearted over a bunch of chinese peasants, he didn't even give a damn about roosky ones
I sort of vaguely remember it was some kind of tiff over the border.
pavt
Stainless
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2013
- Location
- 20 miles north of Buffalo NY
I very much agree regarding different goals vs Milton Friedman shit (which has already been debunked). And history etc.
I do feel compelled to point out that Adam Smith was speaking specifically against Rentiers when he spoke of Free Markets (and sarcastically about the "Invisible Hand"). But you'll never hear the full quotes from the Fux News crowd.
Re Greed, there is a world of difference between the guy at the top wanting more, and they guy on the bottom wanting more. Failure to recognize this is what will kill the US.
I still maintain that were the Chinese to build something to the same quality levels it would cost a lot more than what we normally see in our imports. That is due *only* to Western greed which as you point out correctly is responsible for US collapse. FFS, they have their own Mars landing and everything.
john.k
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2012
- Location
- Brisbane Qld Australia
I dont know about the quality,but Chinese machine tools have risen to astronomical prices last couple of years......An equivalent radial drill to my old Richmond is $18,000 +
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