Tips for new 3-axis vertical mill?

[Schjell]

Hi folks. We decided today that we are going to buy a 3 axis vertical mill to cover basic needs in our shop.
Is the Haas VF series (thinking VF4 size) really as bad as a lot of people say here? We've got a ST30Y lathe which is ok so far, we don't machine every day/week though. Was thinking it would be nice to have two machines with same controls interface.

What alternatives are better in your opinion? Planning to spend equivalent of approx 100-150k USD new.
Assume decently equipped.

Thanks!

 

[Mtndew]

It all depends on what you're machining, how accurate they have to be and how fast you need to get them on and off the machine and out the door.
My guess is that you'll be fine with the Haas.

 

[Schjell]

Thanks!
We design our own parts so we try to keep wide allowable tolerances. Sometimes a bit tough materials though, Inconel and Ti.

No need for crazy rapid speeds, but a fast spindle makes sense to me for the small end mills. See that the Haas has around 8000 max rpm which sounds low to me?

 

[Schjell]

It all depends on what you're machining, how accurate they have to be and how fast you need to get them on and off the machine and out the door.
My guess is that you'll be fine with the Haas.

@Mtndew - a friend of mine works as an Okuma rep in my region. Do you think we'd be best served with a Genos series vert. mill? The price difference was not that much really. Like most people, we just want a machine that's easy to use, rigid and reliable. Heard a lot of good about Okuma lathes, don't know about their mills.

 

[Mtndew]

@Mtndew - a friend of mine works as an Okuma rep in my region. Do you think we'd be best served with a Genos series vert. mill? The price difference was not that much really. Like most people, we just want a machine that's easy to use, rigid and reliable. Heard a lot of good about Okuma lathes, don't know about their mills.

Night and day difference between the Genos mills and a Haas mill. Not even in the same ballpark.
We have 3 of them. And a bunch of Okuma lathes.

 

[Schjell]

Good enough for me. We see that machines are paid down a lot quicker than expected, so will go for the Genos. Sticking to 3 axis though, we have really good experience in just getting tricky stuff printed.

 

[Billy_C]

A Doosan might not be a terrible idea to look into. The Fanuc control is at least pretty familiar coming from a Haas, maybe a little less intuitive. It gets you into that world which makes many more classes of machines become familiar territory.

I wouldn't let anyone talk you out of the Haas though. We have a few VF4s and they are workhorses. The SS doesn't come with anything less than the 12k spindle. If you're even remotely satisfied with the Haas lathe then a Haas mill will certainly do the job. Options are not so bad with the Haas either. There is a wide range from the most basic to fully decked out. If you're going to be running hard materials, through spindle air might be something to consider depending on your approach. You could probably option a VF4 to $200k if you wanted to but at that point high end machines certainly become more tempting.

 

[empower]

Hi folks. We decided today that we are going to buy a 3 axis vertical mill to cover basic needs in our shop.
Is the Haas VF series (thinking VF4 size) really as bad as a lot of people say here? We've got a ST30Y lathe which is ok so far, we don't machine every day/week though. Was thinking it would be nice to have two machines with same controls interface.

What alternatives are better in your opinion? Planning to spend equivalent of approx 100-150k USD new.
Assume decently equipped.

Thanks!

i would HIGHLY recommend either doosan or okuma will have MUCH better alternatives in your price range.

 

[empower]

Good enough for me. We see that machines are paid down a lot quicker than expected, so will go for the Genos. Sticking to 3 axis though, we have really good experience in just getting tricky stuff printed.

GREAT choice! you wont regret it.

 

[empower]

A Doosan might not be a terrible idea to look into. The Fanuc control is at least pretty familiar coming from a Haas, maybe a little less intuitive. It gets you into that world which makes many more classes of machines become familiar territory.

I wouldn't let anyone talk you out of the Haas though. We have a few VF4s and they are workhorses. The SS doesn't come with anything less than the 12k spindle. If you're even remotely satisfied with the Haas lathe then a Haas mill will certainly do the job. Options are not so bad with the Haas either. There is a wide range from the most basic to fully decked out. If you're going to be running hard materials, through spindle air might be something to consider depending on your approach. You could probably option a VF4 to $200k if you wanted to but at that point high end machines certainly become more tempting.

WHY? an MV560 would be maybe 20k more than a comparable VF, and its 10x the machine that a haas is. FUCK haas.

 

[Schjell]

Night and day difference between the Genos mills and a Haas mill. Not even in the same ballpark.
We have 3 of them. And a bunch of Okuma lathes.

Sorry for keeping nagging you Mtndew, just wondering if you think I should spend the extra cash on all that optional software stuff if I'll strictly be using CAM anyways. Right now we are looking at the 560V with optional extra z height. Was told by Okuma that streaming data from server rather than running from a USB was the best way to do it.

 

[Mtndew]

Sorry for keeping nagging you Mtndew, just wondering if you think I should spend the extra cash on all that optional software stuff if I'll strictly be using CAM anyways. Right now we are looking at the 560V with optional extra z height. Was told by Okuma that streaming data from server rather than running from a USB was the best way to do it.

Yes, you can just hook it up via ethernet to your computer, it's simple because it has Windows in the background. Unlike Fanuc where you need to split the atom in order to figure out how to connect to your computer.
But USB is fine too for program transfers.
Get 1000psi coolant thru, and if you still have $20k left over, get SuperNurbs.
We have 500psi and I wish I would have gone 1000psi like we did on our new Hyundai KF7600L. Hyundai wouldn't be a bad mfg to look at also. This is our 2nd one and they are rock solid.

 

[TrollTuner]

Awesome.. Welcome to Okuma.

Definelty network the Machine.. Makes life easy. Easy gets the parts made.
I have had my 560 for a few years if you get stuck on anything reach out.
Charlie Gosiger West has some good Okuma Videos too https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV9oa9oTH3TZCQQ_D5C1Q0A/videos

 

[Billy_C]

WHY? an MV560 would be maybe 20k more than a comparable VF, and its 10x the machine that a haas is. FUCK haas.

Why???? Because the VFs are one of the very few things Haas has dialed. They are not the fastest, most rigid, most optioned, or most accurate but they are super quick to implement into any workflow and can realistically make most lower volume 3 axis parts no problem. When a new or used VF arrives on our floor, it's making parts same or next day. There is minimal fusing around with anything really. Going from a Haas lathe to a Haas VFss is a major step up in quality-of-experience. It's not a perfect platform but I'd think twice about mixing up controls this early on if all that's necessary is getting a basic 3 axis machine setup that can make parts as soon as it's on.

For the record, I'm not a fan of funding a loosing race team with the money I'm paying for software updates but that is an entirely different issue. I agree with your last part on that.

It just doesn't make sense for everyone to buy and implement high end gear, especially people who don't have the knowledge or financial resources you have.

 

[Schjell]

Yes, you can just hook it up via ethernet to your computer, it's simple because it has Windows in the background. Unlike Fanuc where you need to split the atom in order to figure out how to connect to your computer.
But USB is fine too for program transfers.
Get 1000psi coolant thru, and if you still have $20k left over, get SuperNurbs.
We have 500psi and I wish I would have gone 1000psi like we did on our new Hyundai KF7600L. Hyundai wouldn't be a bad mfg to look at also. This is our 2nd one and they are rock solid.

Got a quote for Okuma, going through options with them in a meeting tomorrow.

Also getting a quote for a Huyndai, but was told that Fanuc controller is typ 4 months, but Siemens might be over a year due to struggles with components. He said that with CAM it doesn't really matter, but thought I'd get some input from you.

 

[Mtndew]

Got a quote for Okuma, going through options with them in a meeting tomorrow.

Also getting a quote for a Huyndai, but was told that Fanuc controller is typ 4 months, but Siemens might be over a year due to struggles with components. He said that with CAM it doesn't really matter, but thought I'd get some input from you.

I have no experience with Siemans controls.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

Yes, you can just hook it up via ethernet to your computer, it's simple because it has Windows in the background. Unlike Fanuc where you need to split the atom in order to figure out how to connect to your computer.
But USB is fine too for program transfers.
Get 1000psi coolant thru, and if you still have $20k left over, get SuperNurbs.
We have 500psi and I wish I would have gone 1000psi like we did on our new Hyundai KF7600L. Hyundai wouldn't be a bad mfg to look at also. This is our 2nd one and they are rock solid.

Mine is coming with 1000 PSI, Super Nurbs and a bunch of other stuff. I checked as many boxes as I could, because it's easier than trying to field install later.

 

[Mtndew]

Mine is coming with 1000 PSI, Super Nurbs and a bunch of other stuff. I checked as many boxes as I could, because it's easier than trying to field install later.

Nice! Are you going to put a trunnion on it or keep it 3 axis?

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

Nice! Are you going to put a trunnion on it or keep it 3 axis?

Three axis on this one. The next one will have a full 4th.

 

[Schjell]

Leasing sorted out - let's just hope Taiwan doesn't get invaded while we're waiting.