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Titans of CNC Actually Useful For Training Fresh Blood?

Covenant MFG

Aluminum
Joined
May 26, 2021
Location
Greater Sacramento
Yeah yeah I know everyone has strong opinions on our featured media personalities.

All that discussion aside though, I'm running the classic low volume high mix job shop and get plenty of somewhat simple parts through. I intend to stay in this space if at all possible in the long term and train young guys from the ground up.
So, all that said, I'm needing help on getting programs banged out, even if they're rough and I have to double check everything, I have several young people who I can get help from part time, along with my wife who's starting to help out a lot more, who are computer-savvy and can learn quick. I expect to need to do all the training myself, but has anyone had good results with the Titan online courses?

Everyone's biggest issue with Titan seems to be accusations of way too aggressive and showy, and if that's the case I'm pretty sure I can just override that when I train and back down SFM or IPTs from their recommendations, but still get 80% of the basics communicated to a newbie. Especially since I have a fair number of "blocks with holes" aluminum jobs where the differences of a few hundred SFM isn't gonna hurt anything. Yes, I know nothing beats actually making chips and experience beats everything blah blah blah but I'm talking about the programming side.

And if the Titan stuff is more harmful than not, I'd love to hear about other courses, although all the useful ones seem to be hobbyist or not at all organized.
 
What is your end game? Do you want the guys to watch titans on their own dime at home? From my experience the guys that will gain from this are already doing something at home on their own. The guys that won't gain from it aren't gonna try and learn anything off the clock.

If, on the other hand, you will pay them to watch, just train them yourself. Then the only bad habits and bad info they pick up will be yours.
 
When you're talking about Titans of CNC and training,.... are you talking about their mastercam classes on their website? or just watching their youtube channel lol?

I assume the training you're looking for is Mastercam classes. I would point you in the direction of the mastercam university stuff, or even videos on youtube. CamInstructor and even Mastercam's youtube has a ton of great info.
 
Yeah yeah I know everyone has strong opinions on our featured media personalities.

All that discussion aside though, I'm running the classic low volume high mix job shop and get plenty of somewhat simple parts through. I intend to stay in this space if at all possible in the long term and train young guys from the ground up.
So, all that said, I'm needing help on getting programs banged out, even if they're rough and I have to double check everything, I have several young people who I can get help from part time, along with my wife who's starting to help out a lot more, who are computer-savvy and can learn quick. I expect to need to do all the training myself, but has anyone had good results with the Titan online courses?

Everyone's biggest issue with Titan seems to be accusations of way too aggressive and showy, and if that's the case I'm pretty sure I can just override that when I train and back down SFM or IPTs from their recommendations, but still get 80% of the basics communicated to a newbie. Especially since I have a fair number of "blocks with holes" aluminum jobs where the differences of a few hundred SFM isn't gonna hurt anything. Yes, I know nothing beats actually making chips and experience beats everything blah blah blah but I'm talking about the programming side.

And if the Titan stuff is more harmful than not, I'd love to hear about other courses, although all the useful ones seem to be hobbyist or not at all organized.

Consider checking out the CNC courses at Sierra College. Titan actually helped lay some of the groundwork for the program. They had a huge grant from Haas. They have 10 VF1s, a couple UMCs, a few lathes. This was all when Titan used to be in Rocklin. The program is actually very good imho. It might be one of the best community colleges for CNC in the entire state.

If your young guys actually are interested in learning, send them there. Offer to pay their tuition (about $200 with parking pass). Trust me, they will learn a lot more than any online course, and it makes sense because it won't take any of your personal time and they won't be crashing your machines or breaking your tools. There are evening classes available.

Back when I was doing product development and when I wanted to try CNC programming, I took an evening course. Small class sizes, great equipment and tools, and very convenient.

If your young guys are actually serious about learning, they will jump at this opportunity. If they can't commit to 2 evening classes per week for a few months, then you can know that they aren't worth your time.

Btw the program teaches Fusion.
 
I expect to need to do all the training myself, but has anyone had good results with the Titan online courses?
Is the intent to free up some of your own time?

Management is a full time job. When you're done initially training your guys, you'll still need to manage them every day. It never ends.

The usefulness of Titan's courses is immaterial. You'd be sending the wrong message right off the bat by having new guys teach themselves. Establish your authority and expertise by doing all of the training yourself, and continuing to train and correct mistakes after the initial phase.

You'll have plenty of free time to yourself after your guys clock out. :) :crazy:
 
Send them to night school as someone suggested. You're in the machining business not the training business. When I was doing my apprenticeship there was a ratio of something like 4 journeyman required for each apprentice. I'm sure this was to balance the load so that journeyman were still productive. Companies with insufficient journeyman would send their apprentices to colleges or training centres with the resources. Your time is far more productively spent making chips or facilitating the making of them than the making of tradesman. Titans of CNC is a modern day social media phenomenon I don't even think it's really a training institution it's more of a overblown ego look at me comedy channel.
 
Send them to night school as someone suggested. You're in the machining business not the training business. When I was doing my apprenticeship there was a ratio of something like 4 journeyman required for each apprentice. I'm sure this was to balance the load so that journeyman were still productive. Companies with insufficient journeyman would send their apprentices to colleges or training centres with the resources. Your time is far more productively spent making chips or facilitating the making of them than the making of tradesman. Titans of CNC is a modern day social media phenomenon I don't even think it's really a training institution it's more of a overblown ego look at me comedy channel.
dont think i've ever found any humor in either of their videos...
 
What kind of "new guys" are you dealing with? Are these maker crowd? Already machinists? Engineering students? Are they already interested and wanting to learn?
 
One thing your employees can learn from them is how not to treat a CNC machine....
This is absolutely true. One video pointed out that a machine running at low spindle load was "wasting machine potential." Yikes. How often they run parts dry and throw a huge shower of red-hot sparks might also be cause for concern.

I agree with the night school approach only if training them yourself isn't practical. You shouldn't ignore the opportunity to build a relationship with your employees, that training them offers. It will allow you to inspire and cultivate respect and loyalty from them.

Of course, if it were me, I'd start them off the way I did, which was on manual machines. The new guy knows what to tell the computer to do, because he's done it himself.
It has been a real benefit to me to bear in mind that CNC is little more than a tin soldier to turn the handwheels for me.
 
How often they run parts dry and throw a huge shower of red-hot sparks might also be cause for concern.
This is why trade shows and videos are important. Heat going into the chips is desirable and sparks can be a thing. There is science behind it and it's appropriate in certain materials and cutting conditions.


Of course, if it were me, I'd start them off the way I did, which was on manual machines. The new guy knows what to tell the computer to do, because he's done it himself.
It has been a real benefit to me to bear in mind that CNC is little more than a tin soldier to turn the handwheels for me.
Please don't say that again. 🤣 Schools used to require you to have two semesters of board drafting before you got to learn CAD. How valuable do you think T-square and lettering-guide skills are in a CAD program?

Manual machining skills don't transfer over and are nearly worthless on real CNC machines. If given a choice of people in an interview: a guy who can design in Fusion but, has no CNC skills vs someone who can manually single-point an internal thread to a shoulder, I'm picking the Fusion dude any day and twice on Sunday.
 
You just triggered me. Bullfuckingshit. This is one of the dumbest statements by a person who is not an imbecile ever made here.

Get the hence, satanas, and wash your mouth out with soap while you're at it.
I've done adult CAD training (as a full-time job for about five years) and had the opportunity to mentor / train new-hire engineering interns and grads on learning CNC.

Manual machining was a nice-to-have but, not required. CAD/CAM talent was a much greater indicator of future skills. I also knew people who had extensive manual machining skills who just couldn't make the transition to CNC because of not having computer talent, or computer phobias or whatever.

If I want to hit a tenth on a lathe, I can either rotate the compound slide to get greater resolution or I can monkey with offsets in the CNC control. I can hit a tenth in just a few part cycles and then manage to hold it. Knowing how to cheat using a compound at a shallow angle is a worthless skill in the CNC world. Knowing how to set up a taper attachment is worthless. Knowing how to single point upside down and out from a blind hole is worthless.
 
While @EmGo is furiously typing his response, I'm not at all saying there aren't machining skills to learn beyond the programming side.

My god, spend an hour looking at the Zone or the machining subs on Reddit and it's shocking to see what basics seem to have escaped people. "Uhh, I'm boring a hole 6" deep in this part and it makes this awful noise. It's also leaving this rough finish. Do you think the finish is bad material or do I need a different cutter? Also: what is that noise? Is that my spindle bearings from taking too hard of a cut?"

Plenty of stupid to go around. That's why I asked @Covenant MFG up there what kind of experience his guys were going to be starting with.
 
While @EmGo is furiously typing his response, I'm not at all saying there aren't machining skills to learn beyond the programming side.

My god, spend an hour looking at the Zone or the machining subs on Reddit and it's shocking to see what basics seem to have escaped people. "Uhh, I'm boring a hole 6" deep in this part and it makes this awful noise. It's also leaving this rough finish. Do you think the finish is bad material or do I need a different cutter? Also: what is that noise? Is that my spindle bearings from taking too hard of a cut?"

Lots of stupid to go around. That's why I asked @Covenant MFG up there what kind of experience his guys were going to be starting with.
How exactly will manual machining cure stupidity?

If somebody needs hundreds of hours of manual machining experience to understand concepts such as cutter surface speed, chipload, tool stickout, etc etc then honestly machining isn't the career for them.
 
How exactly will manual machining cure stupidity?
Good point. I'm exhausted from this idea that everyone is a blank hard drive, just waiting to be programmed and everyone learns the same. Had so many managers that believed (and ran things) as if employees were interchangeable and infinitely replaceable.
 








 
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