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Told we didn't make any money.

Cheaping out on tooling is often one of the most obvious indicators of a poorly run shop.

There are plenty of ways to save money on tooling. Using busted inserts is not one of them.
I had a boss that got mad about deburring blades.
They where always in short supply. “Every time I buy
Them they are gone the next day”
Well ya that’s becouse everyone has been suffering with dull ass blades for 3 weeks.
No one hoards deburring blades for a hobby….
 
I had a boss that got mad about deburring blades.
They where always in short supply. “Every time I buy
Them they are gone the next day”
Well ya that’s becouse everyone has been suffering with dull ass blades for 3 weeks.
No one hoards deburring blades for a hobby….
And for whatever reason they want a left nut for those blades, like they're made from unicorn blood, or dragons teeth.
 
And for whatever reason they want a left nut for those blades, like they're made from unicorn blood, or dragons teeth.
who we use
https://www.suncoasttools.com/crm/ItemPage.aspx?ItemNumber=48E100P++++29037++80&VendorNumber=VNECORP HSS
https://www.suncoasttools.com/crm/ItemPage.aspx?ItemNumber=48E100C++++29035++80&VendorNumber=VNECORP CARBIDE

So far they have about the best deals and they are located locally to me in Florida. I have been using their YG1 cobalt drills for about 2 months now and have been very pleased with performance and cost.
 
who we use
https://www.suncoasttools.com/crm/ItemPage.aspx?ItemNumber=48E100P++++29037++80&VendorNumber=VNECORP HSS
https://www.suncoasttools.com/crm/ItemPage.aspx?ItemNumber=48E100C++++29035++80&VendorNumber=VNECORP CARBIDE

So far they have about the best deals and they are located locally to me in Florida. I have been using their YG1 cobalt drills for about 2 months now and have been very pleased with performance and cost.
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Nope, I'm am left handed, so I mostly buy the bi-sexual blades :D
That's good, I think where I was getting them it was by the pack only, no singles, nice!
 
View attachment 438230
Nope, I'm am left handed, so I mostly buy the bi-sexual blades :D
That's good, I think where I was getting them it was by the pack only, no singles, nice!
The single direction cut and bidirectional cut are for different use cases.
The double is better for harder materials (cast. Brass, harder steels) and the spindle direction are way better for soft materials. Much smoother cutting action.

I think I’ve only ever used that brand. Always been happy and they are cheap,
That’s what grilled me about the old boss. He bought their “ligh duty” ones for eaven cheaper and hold buy a pack or 2 a month in a shop with 12-15 machinists….
Note: the heavy duty ones are WAY better. Never cheap out and save the $.30
The light duty ones have a tendency to crack and then you inevitably slice yours and or thumb with the stub left in the holder that suddenly has no resistance….

The same boss said I used to many pens and would need to start providing my own.
I told him pens are cheaper than fingers. He did not like that.

Don’t forget the makeup air cost too much to run in the winter too…….,.

Anywhooooo
 
The single direction cut and bidirectional cut are for different use cases.
The double is better for harder materials (cast. Brass, harder steels) and the spindle direction are way better for soft materials. Much smoother cutting action.
I know they are for different use cases, if you have looked at the blade selection there is not a lot of left handed.
and if I buy left handed, no one else can use them.
and I cant use the right handed ones(as well anyway)
so the bi-sexual ones work for both left and righties, and we only do Aluminium anyway, and deburr in the machines.

Had a guy try to fire me on my first day because I was left handed when he gave me a deburr tool.
Pissed me off, he actually said your left handed, this wont work, and went up front and told them to let me go.

I don't take shit from anyone, I told the guy I bet I can deburr the parts as fast and as good as you if not faster or better with the wrong handed burrs,
I will even use them in my left hand but rotate them backwards(the correct direct for the burr) or use my right hand.
Dude was even more mad when I did it, fuqn douche bag.
(I was an artist in a previous life, great hand control)
 
I know they are for different use cases, if you have looked at the blade selection there is not a lot of left handed.
and if I buy left handed, no one else can use them.
and I cant use the right handed ones(as well anyway)
so the bi-sexual ones work for both left and righties, and we only do Aluminium anyway, and deburr in the machines.

Had a guy try to fire me on my first day because I was left handed when he gave me a deburr tool.
Pissed me off, he actually said your left handed, this wont work, and went up front and told them to let me go.

I don't take shit from anyone, I told the guy I bet I can deburr the parts as fast and as good as you if not faster or better with the wrong handed burrs,
I will even use them in my left hand but rotate them backwards(the correct direct for the burr) or use my right hand.
Dude was even more mad when I did it, fuqn douche bag.
(I was an artist in a previous life, great hand control)
adult film star? oh HAND control.....gotcha
 
Quoting is someone making a guess on how long something will take. One of your jobs as a worker is to try and match or beat that time.

Your manager also has jobs he is trying to match or beat. What can seem like bullcrap or just a bunch of idiotic things might have a reason for it. Not saying they are good reasons.

Some places I've been at the payroll costs are seen as unchangeable. Not saying they aren't at the top(owner) but most managers have zero control or resposiblitly over it. So to try and control cost like buying tools and equipment they shift the cost onto employees hourly time. Job takes longer but their job at cutting cost looks great.

The people that tell you what to do are there for a pay check same as you. Trying to understand their view point can be a big help on why they are doing what they do.

I was taught the phrase "self interest governs all". Very helpful words when trying to figure people out.
 
If a job takes four days and was quoted at seven hours, the quoter did their job wrong. The quoter needs to know the shops capabilities, and make an accurate estimate of how long the job will actually take, not pick a number to aspire to, or quote it as fewer hours to underbid a competitor. If you want to try to underbid another price, you need to reduce the shop rate and/or profit margin, so you can all see what you're giving up.

If you want to reduce the number of hours a job will take, you need to make improvements in the shop. Organization, planning, proper tooling, better software, training and education, etc.
 
i once worked in a quoting and estimating section .........there were two ways to estimate .....do masses of work ,or fake it ......there were some women in the section,and they were 'faking it' bigtime and getting away with it.
 
Sure, the management team could be doing something different but to be fair, we don't have the full context. Complaining about management doesn't help the OP. 4 days to run a 7 hour job tells me that he really needs more practice all around. It is better to focus on that before going somewhere else. A little trial by fire is good for us now and then.
Sounds more to me like the guy isnt being managed properly. Any production environment with work orders should have SOPs laid out and a reference person or archives with shortcuts and jigs. They should also teach their hands how to help them bid better. A new part having no SOP or presets or programming… no jigs… no references… no training (trusting the guy at his word because he seems pretty self aware)… and no avenue to address these issues with superiors without fear of retaliation seems like an engineer (not trying to be offensive) telling a welder how to grind his bead and where to set his machine- from the home office. It speaks to an overall disregard for common sense at the high levels.
 
I don't think it's that easy. Or more accurately, you can't just decide a tool is "better" because it costs more.

Here's my favorite example, because it actually happened : I was a sandvik fanboy. Before that a carboloy fanboy, but never kennametal. Carboloy 516 is the shnitz !

Anyhoo, the sandvik sales guy was really good, knew his stuff, big help, "here, try this" and all that so I became an idolator. And then one day ran out of inserts and was in a rush so I snagged some Penn Tool or other cheap import junk cnmg's to get me through the next couple days. Need parts now, bla bla.

The $2 inserts lasted almost as long as the $10 inserts (this was a while back). In fact it was close enough time-wise that over a week's use, I was saving about $50 a day. That's $250 a week or $1,000 a month.

I still kept a box of the Grade A Double-Whammy Triple Throwdown Expensive sandviks around for special occasions. And kept using knux'es and laydown threading inserts and other high-price sandvik products for where it really made a difference. But no more cnmg's for roughing steel.

The lesson for me was, you can't judge by price. You have to take it on a case by case basis and do actual testing. But I never again went on the premise that most expensive = most economical.
.
The theory is the same. You still went out and bought NEW TOOLS/ CONSUMABLES. You did that because… you intended to succeed. They are setting him up for failure at every turn. Would you suggest someone start out with shit tools and worn out, chipped, harbor freight threaders to learn on while they pipe their gas lines in? Or would you make sure they had a proper tool, cutting oil, a chain vice, a couple of rigid steel 24s, good instructions, pro grade teflon tape, and plenty of copper anti seize. Would you sit and watch them fumble with the tape and then wrap it backwards? Or walk buy without stopping and explaining how it’s done and making sure they bury the threads? Cuz I have a feeling this shop uses pvc and Elmer’s.
 
Quoting is someone making a guess on how long something will take. One of your jobs as a worker is to try and match or beat that time.

Your manager also has jobs he is trying to match or beat. What can seem like bullcrap or just a bunch of idiotic things might have a reason for it. Not saying they are good reasons.

Some places I've been at the payroll costs are seen as unchangeable. Not saying they aren't at the top(owner) but most managers have zero control or resposiblitly over it. So to try and control cost like buying tools and equipment they shift the cost onto employees hourly time. Job takes longer but their job at cutting cost looks great.

The people that tell you what to do are there for a pay check same as you. Trying to understand their view point can be a big help on why they are doing what they do.

I was taught the phrase "self interest governs all". Very helpful words when trying to figure people out.
It’s true for most. But there are some people who just try to do what’s right. Golden rule and all. My philosophy is, if we are all treating eachother how we want to be treated, then people are telling me exactly how they want me to treat them. It’s taken a while to catch on to that. We seem to have forgotten the fact that leaders are supposed to be placed according to their ability to improvise, adapt, and overcome where others fumble, panic, and run.
 
It’s true for most. But there are some people who just try to do what’s right. Golden rule and all. My philosophy is, if we are all treating eachother how we want to be treated, then people are telling me exactly how they want me to treat them. It’s taken a while to catch on to that. We seem to have forgotten the fact that leaders are supposed to be placed according to their ability to improvise, adapt, and overcome where others fumble, panic, and run.
And employees should be placed based on their experience and abilities. We only know the Op';s side of the situation. To blindly blame management for every issue when we only know half of the situation is irresponsible at best.
 
If there was no money made that simply wasn't quoted correctly, distance/ speed.
The key to successfully quoting accurately is using the programmers speeds and feeds in the tool library that they program with. For all tools shell mill, endmills drills and taps.. Its a table that's a all it is for speeds and feeds. Reduce by 10% and tour good If it's out to lunch feasibility wise, fixit to what your reality is. Or use the manufacturers recommended starting points to find tour comfort zone with your maches capabilities. Use the same SFM, radial and axial depths of cut and be consistent with % of overlap. Add a % for non engagement or rapid moves. Make adjustments if there is any difference in the cycletime.
 
^I don't think OP is saying that the cycle time was estimated incorrectly, but rather the setup time was much longer than expected because of a state of disorganization in the company he works at.

Having detailed setup sheets and a well organized tool crib is absolutely critical for this.
 
^I don't think OP is saying that the cycle time was estimated incorrectly, but rather the setup time was much longer than expected because of a state of disorganization in the company he works at.

Having detailed setup sheets and a well organized tool crib is absolutely critical for this.
if I could like this 2 times I would.Organization and standardization are king
 








 
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