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Tool and Cutter Grinder Help

phillip

Plastic
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Location
Chesterfield, Virginia, USA
I just bought a tool and cutter grinder. It is an O K Tool Co. Inc. Model 202. It is no longer made. Does anyone know if this line was picked up by another company or was it a copy of another brand.
I am looking for information on tool grinding, like end mills on the end and flutes. I am also looking for information on attachments and accessories and how they are used. Pictures from a tool and cutter grinder manual of another manufacture would be helpful so I can make them if not easily found. I have not been able to find any information on the internet. I have never used or seen a tool and cutter grinder used. I am just a self taught home machinist with a lathe, mill and now a grinder. Any help would be appreciated.
Phillip
 

phillip

Plastic
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Location
Chesterfield, Virginia, USA
Tool And Cutter Grinder Help

Those are some good links TomB. Better than anything I had come across.
This T&C grinder is very tight. It was used to sharpen tools at the AMF Bakery in Richmond VA. When the machinist that used it retired some time back it was no longer used. It was put out side before being sold. So there is some light rust. Scotch bright cleans it. I am trying to get in touch with the machinist for information. The head that holds the tool uses an NMBT 50 taper tool holder and 1K collets. It only had 1 collet with it and there is no info about 1K collets or anything that looks similar on the internet. I found a MNBT 50 tool holder and TG100 collets on ebay to replace it. I will need to make some type of pall for the 24 tooth wheel on the back. The motor for spinning the tool head when needed has a flat belt pulley on it. I have no clue how it connects to the tool head. There is no pulley on it. Just another reason I am looking for at least a manual for some other brand T&C grinder that might have some pictures for some ideas.
 

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donie

Diamond
Joined
May 17, 2003
Location
Walla Walla Wine and Wild Turkey
This is the work head on my Cincinatti #2 grinder. In the photo it is set up for lathe and boring tools using the vise shown held in a collet in the work head and the V block on the table.
The photo shows the flat belt and motor also. One can make a pulley and fit to either end of your work head, flip the motor around as needed.
No, I do not turn the motor on when the vise is in the work head! However, all the movements of the work head makes grinding any angles on the tools shown precise and consistent.
http://s170.photobucket.com/albums/u265/donsmonarch10ee/?action=view&current=cuttergrinder1.jpg
 

phillip

Plastic
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Location
Chesterfield, Virginia, USA
Tool And Cutter Grinder Help

Thanks for the picture of your grinding accessories donie. That is very helpful to see pictures. The vice mounted in the work head is a good idea. If anyone else has pictures of setups please post.
More questions: Who might sell flat belts for the work head? I found one site that sells belts for tool post grinders. Are they the same? With this type of work head, if I make an adjustable tooth rest, can I sharpen the flutes of an end mill? The work head seems to move freely enough. Will it work or do you have to use an air spindle. For a 1HP wheel head motor what the biggest wheel I should use? What’s a practical size? What stile and diameter wheel is used to grind in the lands of an end mill to sharpen the flutes? I don’t know if I stated that right. I mean the face of the flute not the outside circumference.
 

donie

Diamond
Joined
May 17, 2003
Location
Walla Walla Wine and Wild Turkey
phillip, because I am in Walla Walla Wa, every thing has to be imported. So, what I do for those small flat belts is use the automotive or whatever they are flat belts I can get at the farm store, turn them inside out and sand the thick rubber on down using coarse flint paper running them on a makeshift electric motor and pulley, so as the belt has a slow enough surface speed it wont burn. I sand the rubber down as thin as reasonably possible, then they run really smooth.
Here is a photo of my home made lathe tool post grinder fixed to the wheel head of my cutter grinder for internal grinding of a hard bushing held in a jaw chuck in the work head.
Running one of my modified flat belts at a wheel speed of around 15000 rpms, runs smooth and does a good job.
http://s170.photobucket.com/albums/u265/donsmonarch10ee/?action=view&current=PostGrinder005.jpg

As far as wheels for grinding reamers and end mills, I have cup and sometimes use dish wheels, but you have to watch speed, you should be able to change your wheel head speed I would think.
I always try to buy the best quality wheels rather then cheap imports.
You need to be really careful and keep yourself out of line of those wheels, set your table stops so you dont crash a wheel, if they blow pieces fly at bullet speeds.
If you end up with a piece of wheel in your brain, I will be pissed!
 

phillip

Plastic
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Location
Chesterfield, Virginia, USA
donie, here in Virginia there is not a big access to machine tool stuff either. As far as wheels in the brain, I am very aware of safety around rotating equipment. I did Instrument and control work at a large power station for 25 years. Now I do voltage regulation and protection for generators up to 700 MW. When I got my mill and lathe and reworked them the two machinists there appreciated that I had an interest in what they did. They were always a great resource and I still stop by to talk about stuff.
Making a flat belt out of an automotive belt is a good trick. You seem to be real resourceful. That is why I like my machine tools. If you can think of it you can probably make it.
 

donie

Diamond
Joined
May 17, 2003
Location
Walla Walla Wine and Wild Turkey
I was trying to look at the Norton book in that link but seem be having problems with it. The Cinci #1 manual is not near as good as the #2 manual I cant seem to find in my stuff right now.
Anyway, if you want to grind endmills of small size under 1", a Weldon airbearing fixture would be the way to go. I have ground small endmills using the regular work head but its tricky.
I will point this out, when I use cup wheels, I dress them with the wheel head at 90 degrees, Take a carpenter pencil and put lead across the face with the wheel running, then angle the wheel head about 2 degrees and then dress a flat about 1/16" to 1/8", I can see that better cause I put lead on it. That way, I have just a small portion of the wheel face contacting the cutter, otherwise with the full face of the wheel contacting the cutter, it will tend to overheat and burn the cutter.
I often grind reamers to sizes I need, one comes to mind is .555" an OEM reamer cost around $200, I just buy the standard size over for around $10 and grind to that size.
That old grinder I have is really the heart of my shop, and the way I can hold the close and consistent tolerance that is capable of my Monarch EE lathe and Moore jigbore.
Notice I said consistent. I am good at hand grinding tools, but no where near as consistent as a machine like a cutter grinder.
 

phillip

Plastic
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Location
Chesterfield, Virginia, USA
donie, what is a good wheel grit for grinding HSS or HSSCO. I don’t want to buy a wheel to coarse that leaves a rough finish or to fine looking for a smooth finish and then have something that heats up to quick. I will be powering this with a variable frequency drive, so I can easily vary the speed to make the wheel act harder or softer(without exceeding the recommended wheel speed of course). I would like to buy the right wheel the first time. I know there is more to a wheel then grit, like bond, density. Any suggestions would help. What type and part number do you use? Is it worth buying a diamond wheel for carbide or is silicon carbide good enough. I have a pedestal grinder with the small tables on each end (I think there called tool grinders). I have a diamond wheel on one end and silicon carbide on the other. In that application the diamond wheel works much better for carbide.
 

donie

Diamond
Joined
May 17, 2003
Location
Walla Walla Wine and Wild Turkey
phillip, all can can tell you is whats working for me and it may not be the best. For grinding HSS I am using "I think" a 60 grit Norton 32a, 4" cup wheel of one of the softer grades. The coarser and softer wheels seem to work for me, they have to be dressed often, but tend not to burn the cutters as easy. I get a good enough finish with them by sparking out.
For carbide, again I like coarser diamond wheels with lower diamond concentration, they seem to run cooler for me, and last a long time if you dont crash into them. Diamond is for sure the way to go.
Others may chime in with better choices. I think coarser wheels would be a good start anyway.
I at times use cut off wheels for sharpening flutes with good results, but have blown them off the spindle, doesnt take much of a bump, so look out!
I think I would really like a VFD on my grinder.
 

phillip

Plastic
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Location
Chesterfield, Virginia, USA
donie, thanks for all the information. It’s good to get pointers from other people. Sometimes mistakes while learning can be expensive. This is probably going to be this winters project. I will tear it down, clean it, check the oiling system and paint. I will post some pictures when done. I have to go with VFD because this is in my garage and I only have single phase. They really give some flexibility with speed control on a belt driven lathe. It will be good on this wheel head to adjust speed without moving the belt. The best way to wire them is power into the VFD then out to the motor. Wire the forward, reverse, start, and stop switches into the 24 volt intelligent inputs of the VFD. It requires a contactor and some logic wiring to make all the start stop switches and direction drum switch work as it was originally designed. Thanks again.
 

Cyclotronguy

Stainless
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Location
Northern California
Grinding wheels

Comment on grinding wheels. I grew up around Norton Abrasives, and for years used nothing but Norton and the occasional Carborundum. Then the guys at the grinding shop turned me on to Noritake Abrasives. Now I have Noritake wheels on my tool grinder, OD grinder and Surface grinder. Have a file cabinet full of mounted Norton and Carborundum wheels that I bet I never again use.

Cyclotronguy
 

phillip

Plastic
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Location
Chesterfield, Virginia, USA
Completed Tool & Cutter Grinder

I was looking back at my old postings and realized I had not followed up and shown the finished project. As I got into the tear down I found this machine had basically no ware. It cleaned up nicely and was painted with two part epoxy. Found out this is the same as a Norton No. 202. They were made by Pratt & Whitney / Warner & Swasey. I liked the suggestion of mounting a vice for the work head which I also did. I also mounted a four jaw chuck. Thanks again for all the information.
 

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phillip

Plastic
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Location
Chesterfield, Virginia, USA
Thanks for sending me back to Vintage Machinery. I have been there before and found manuals for other equipment. They are an excellent source. The last time I looked for info on this 202 was several years ago. I still wish I could find a manual. I have found information on other T&C grinders which has been helpfull. THe following is a company that provided me with the information about who actualy produced these, Pratt & Whitney / Warner & Swasey. They provided me with some good parts drawings.

Joel Forney
Repair Order Technical Engineer
Cinetic Landis Corp
16778 Halfway Blvd
Hagerstown, MD 21740
USA
Phone: 301-797-2182 Fax:301-797-2480
Email: [email protected]
Web: At the Forefront of Grinding Technology
 

jbacc

Cast Iron
Joined
May 5, 2009
Location
New Jersey
Good Evening,

Sorry to revive this old thread. I am considering the purchase of a tool and cutter grinder. I posted a WTB in the appropriate section of PM and I have received some leads and great advice but most machines are too expensive, too far away, worn out and/or include no accessories whatsoever.

I came across an OK Tool Model 202 grinder and was hoping that anyone who owns or has experience with one would share that information? I have done quite a bit of searching trying to find out more about the grinder and the company and there isn't much available. I found some literature at Vintage Machinery and I stumbled on to this thread.

Any thoughts, opinions, advise etc would be most appreciated.

Thank you.

Joe
 

wood2steel

Aluminum
Joined
May 17, 2013
Location
georgia
Joe, Am not familiar with that exact model, but it looks solid built, and seems to follow the design features of most major brands-- B & S, Cinncy, KO lee, etc.. most likely flat & v ways. Just don't get too deep in your pocket with these. I pick up a unit here in the southeast several times a year for under $500 w at Ieast some tooling. They're out there; just have to do your homework and be ready to jump at the right time. I have at least 6 TC Grinders in house so i can give a you a run down on various features! Good luck!
PM me if can help out further. Johnny
 








 
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