Tormach or not?

[mcw89]

Hello everyone!

I am a cnc programmer / machinist, currently working with machines like Makino, Brother, Enshu and OKK.
I am thinking of buying myself a Tormach PCNC 440 (fits in my basement).

For someone who owns/owned a Tormach:
Is this machine too much of a "toy", when you are used to machines like I listed above? Or can you still do some decent work on it?


Thanks!

 

[Mtndew]

Is this machine too much of a "toy", when you are used to machines like I listed above? Or can you still do some decent work on it?

They are toys IMO.
Sure you can get decent work off of it, but expect to whittle away at materials even aluminum to get the final part finished. And you won't be setting any cycle time records with it.

 

[Milland]

They are toys IMO.
Sure you can get decent work off of it, but expect to whittle away at materials even aluminum to get the final part finished. And you won't be setting any cycle time records with it.

Agree with ^^^^^^^

I've assembled a "higher end" Tormach mill for a client company, and while it's not junk, it's not something that a person with time on real CNC machines would find ideal.

I understand the portability benefit, but I'd rather take apart and reassemble a "Brother class" machine for basement use. It would be 5-10x the machine, and bought used less expensive.

 

[72bwhite]

Owned one for about 8 months
Sold it and got a Fadal.
They are quarky by the time you get all the fixings
You can buy a used real machine

 

[Garwood]

I have moved real CNC's into tiny garages for people. With some minor disassembly and some rigging tricks you can have your cake and eat it too.

Tormach is a joke if you have run real machines.

 

[turnworks]

This seems to come up often. Can anyone put a short list together for what it can do if you've owned one or used one.

Something like.

3/8" end mill .200" depth full width .004"ipt/.016"ipr in mild steel= not happening

same but at .100" depth= maybe if the stars are aligned

ect.

 

[moonlight machine]

You work with a Makino and are thinking of getting a tormach, really???? Are you up for a big disappointment? Yes, it is a toy, you can buy a real mill for what that thing costs.

 

[Cole2534]

You work with a Makino and are thinking of getting a tormach, really???? Are you up for a big disappointment? Yes, it is a toy, you can buy a real mill for what that thing costs.

...I drive Peterbilts at work, if I bought a Chevy would I be disappointed?.....

Well, ya, probably.

Programmed via Mazatrol

 

[winger]

I bought an 1100 quite a few years ago for my shop at home. I only ran manuals at work. At the time there really wasn't any thing close in price and capacity.
I also wasn't able to tell if I was buying a used boat anchor.
Added plus, I'm only a little over an hour away from them and could go check it out first. I haven't regretted it. From what I understand, most people use this as a stepping stone to get a business going.

This mill uses less electricity than my Tree manual. Something to consider when in a residential area.

One thing is, there are not very many used ones for sale.

That said, the new ones are probably too close in price to a Haas.

Dave

 

[kustomizer]

...I drive Peterbilts at work, if I bought a Chevy would I be disappointed?.....

Well, ya, probably.

Programmed via Mazatrol

That Chevy has more cupholders and a LCD tv

 

[Garwood]

...I drive Peterbilts at work, if I bought a Chevy would I be disappointed?.....

Well, ya, probably.

Programmed via Mazatrol

If you were a formula 1 driver and then bought a Chevy Spark with one firing cylinder in the engine. I think that would be a better comparison for Makino to Tormach.

 

[Garwood]

I bought an 1100 quite a few years ago for my shop at home. I only ran manuals at work. At the time there really wasn't any thing close in price and capacity.
I also wasn't able to tell if I was buying a used boat anchor.
Added plus, I'm only a little over an hour away from them and could go check it out first. I haven't regretted it. From what I understand, most people use this as a stepping stone to get a business going.

This mill uses less electricity than my Tree manual. Something to consider when in a residential area.

One thing is, there are not very many used ones for sale.

That said, the new ones are probably too close in price to a Haas.

Dave

I have noticed half a dozen used ones for sale in the Portland area, at a significant price cut from new. Many are listed for many months. I don't think Tormach resale value is good for the seller.

What do you use a Tormach for that makes you happy with it? If you can explain that clearly it would probably help the OP.

 

[kustomizer]

There is a gunsmith in Salmon with their mill and lathe. He has a new product with some merit he is running in a bit over a half hour each that I am certain a VF2 would do in 2-3 mins, I don't know if this helps as the OP's normal machines are somewhat heavier duty than mine.

Now on the other hand his setup is as odd looking as a 4 eyed lizard to me.

I have offered to show him how I do things like that but he has no interest

 

[winger]

I use it for hobby. Since I was a manual machinist I was feeling a little left out technology wise. This machine was less than a snowmobile or motorcycle and I use it year round.
Now I just make my own stuff and some parts for my farming brother in law. (Free of course)
I did make some gages I designed for a company for a few years, enough to pay for the machine, between income and writing off the purchase. I have no interest in running a long term business, partly due to the record keeping and taxes, especially sales tax. I probably wasn't charging enough but paying full SS tax really dug into the profit when I was earning. I did show a profit for a couple years so it wasn't a total tax dodge.

I guess I haven't looked for a while, but I seldom saw one for sale on ebay or craigs list.

I was making a comfortable living without it and now semi retired.

Dave

 

[winger]

I still use the Tree mill for heavy cutting, but it sure is nice not to turn cranks for bolt patterns and slotting.

Dave

 

[Milland]

I would agree that having a Tormach beats having nothing, or maybe a knee mill. But if the OP has run the machines he's stated I'd have to think he'd be better off with a Brother or similar "real" 30 taper machine.

 

[jaguar36]

Tormach obviously gets a bad rap around here, but comparing a new Tormach to a used Brother/Haas/Makino is not at all fair. Obviously a used machine from a 'real' manufacturer will have way more capability (assuming its not just a mess of issues). Buying a new machine with a warranty, delivery, customer support, that you know hasn't been abused, that you can buy with a click of a button is also very beneficial.

You can make good parts with a Tormach, sure not as fast as on a Speedio, but do you need to? Maybe a half hour cycle time is just fine for you. Same thing with tolerances, a Tormach can easily hold reasonable tolerances in aluminum parts.

As long as you understand what you are getting, and don't expect it to be something its not, you can make alot of good parts on one.

 

[Clive603]

Given that the OPs first criteria is "fits in my basement" its unlikely that any real industrial CNC machine can be considered anyway. Maybe the little "second-op" mills on castors might go in but I think nothing more serious.

Not so sure how valid the speed issue is either. If you aren't making parts for a living you won't be standing over it waiting for any relatively complex part anyway. If a Tormach takes 45 minutes, a Hass 15 and a Brother 5 odds are the part is complex enough that you only want one or two so you will wander away to get on with something else and come back when its convenient. Maybe an hour or more later. So really the main difference boils down to spindle time - standing time ratio. So long as its done when you are ready who cares what percentage was spindle time.

So if the Tormach is sufficiently accurate and can handle appropriate cutters to get the job done it could well be perfectly practical.

As turnworks asks what is the realistic metal shifting capability and how does that relate to the jobs you intend to do.

Plenty of folk seem to find the Tormach price / performance / capability / how-long-do-I have-to-wait equation satisfactory whilst acknowledging that in a perfect world something much better would be nice. No difference to the real machinists saying a Bridgeport is a floppy, flexi, weak bit of kit (which comparatively speaking it is) whilst the Bridgeport drivers just roll up their sleeves, get on, and get the job done. But slower.

Being able to walk away while a CNC machine works completely changes the toy / not toy equation when compared to manual machines. Manual you have to stand over it so you directly notice when the machine isn't up to making the largest accurate cut the job can stand so the cost is real now time. CNC its more about schedule come back in 20 minutes et al sort of thing. Set-up time will be similar whatever the machine, probably longer than at work because you won't have all the kit.

Clive

 

[winger]

TRAK VMC2 Vertical Machining Center - TRAK Machine Tools

this might be worth looking at. It is a lot heavier than a 440 though

Dave

 

[mcw89]

You can make good parts with a Tormach, sure not as fast as on a Speedio, but do you need to? Maybe a half hour cycle time is just fine for you. Same thing with tolerances, a Tormach can easily hold reasonable tolerances in aluminum parts.

Thanks for your reply. What kind of tolerances in aluminium are we talking about with a tormach? Can I for example mill a d=30mm H7 (1.18") pocket? And what about reaming?