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Trouble setting zero positions on Fanuc control using parameter 1815

wmpy

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
I screwed up and let the batteries go down for the servos on one of my machines.

The machine is a Mori Seiki DL150Y with MSC-518 control. This is the same as a Fanuc 18T, I believe. Home position has been lost on the right side X, Z, A, and T. A is the live tool driver, and T is the turret.

The APZ bit of parameter 1815 has gone to zero for all these axes. I'm used to being able to set that bit to 1 to set home position, but it's not letting me. I set it to 1, and I get the alarm to turn off the power, but it doesn't take the parameter change. I don't know why.

I've tried setting to 0 first (even though it's already at 0). I've tried doing them in different orders (eg X first, then Z, etc.). I've tried setting the APC bits to zero first, then back to 1. That works, but it still won't let me set the APZ bits.

I'm wondering if Mori has their own special procedure to set the home positions that I'm not aware of. I have procedures for setting the T and A positions but nothing for X znd Z.

Does anyone have any ideas why the control wouldn't let me set APZ to 1?

And does anyone have the procedure for setting home position on a Mori with an MSC-518 control? I imagine it's similar to an SL150, SL200, ZL150, etc.

Thanks!
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
Did you turn on PWE?

I have gone through 1815 reset procedure on two Mori's and it was dirt simple. Change APZ and follow prompts to home out the axis and restart control.
 

wmpy

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Did you turn on PWE?

I have gone through 1815 reset procedure on two Mori's and it was dirt simple. Change APZ and follow prompts to home out the axis and restart control.

Yes, PWE is on. I can change other parameters.

"I have gone through 1815 reset procedure on two Mori's and it was dirt simple. Change APZ and follow prompts to home out the axis and restart control. "
Can you explain this more? Doesn't changing APZ to 1 home out the axis? What prompts were you getting?
 

13engines

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Location
Saint Paul
Here is a link to procedures on Machine Tool Help website.

Zero return procedure and gridshift parameter setting on Fanuc CNC controls

Here is out of a Fanuc 18 Parameter Manual

APZx - Machine position and position on absolute position detector when the
absolute position detector is used
0 : Not corresponding
1 : Corresponding

Note:

When an absolute position detector is used, after primary adjustment is performed or after the absolute position detector is replaced, this parameter must be set to 0, power must be turned off and on, then manual reference position return must be performed. This completes the positional correspondence between the machine position and the position on the absolute position detector, and sets this parameter to 1 automatically.

APCx Position detector
0 : Other than absolute position detector
1 : Absolute position detector (absolute pulse coder)


I've always had to do this twice, or not following the instructions exactly. I think I'd get it where I want it, set an indicator somewhere to capture the small move the axis would make when killing the power. When powered up again I'd move it back to indicator zero and flip the bit to 1. I think I'm remembering this correctly.

Here's a little side note about Mori. I'm thinking it might hold for almost any of their machines. At least the 90's early 20's machines with the yellow/orange bumpers at each end of the ballscrews.

I completely rebuilt an SV50 once. (mill) Buried in the parts book drawing was the fact the X - Y - Z zero was set when the end of the ballscrew nut was 5mm from the rubber/plastic bumper. The soft overtravel limits were set 1mm beyond that. And the Hard overtravel trip dogs a blonde one past that.

Because the machine travels are set up in mm, I always put my machine into metric mode when setting home and travel limits. This 5mm I've talked about seems to correctly play out when setting the travel limits. When set properly and you go full spec travel, you end up 5mm from the bumpers on either end. Of course on a mill, Z+ has to be fine tuned to the tool changer. On a lathe with a tool setter, I imagine some reference to that has to be maintained.
 
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wmpy

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Here is a link to procedures on Machine Tool Help website.

Zero return procedure and gridshift parameter setting on Fanuc CNC controls

Here is out of a Fanuc 18 Parameter Manual

APZx - Machine position and position on absolute position detector when the
absolute position detector is used
0 : Not corresponding
1 : Corresponding

Note:

When an absolute position detector is used, after primary adjustment is performed or after the absolute position detector is replaced, this parameter must be set to 0, power must be turned off and on, then manual reference position return must be performed. This completes the positional correspondence between the machine position and the position on the absolute position detector, and sets this parameter to 1 automatically.

APCx Position detector
0 : Other than absolute position detector
1 : Absolute position detector (absolute pulse coder)


I've always had to do this twice, or not following the instructions exactly. I think I'd get it where I want it, set an indicator somewhere to capture the small move the axis would make when killing the power. When powered up again I'd move it back to indicator zero and flip the bit to 1. I think I'm remembering this correctly.

Here's a little side note about Mori. I'm thinking it might hold for almost any of their machines. At least the 90's early 20's machines with the yellow/orange bumpers at each end of the ballscrews.

I completely rebuilt an SV50 once. (mill) Buried in the parts book drawing was the fact the X - Y - Z zero was set when the end of the ballscrew nut was 5mm from the rubber/plastic bumper. The soft overtravel limits were set 1mm beyond that. And the Hard overtravel trip dogs a blonde one past that.

Because the machine travels are set up in mm, I always put my machine into metric mode when setting home and travel limits. This 5mm I've talked about seems to correctly play out when setting the travel limits. When set properly and you go full travel, you end up 5mm from the bumpers on either end. Of course om a mill, Z+ has to be fine tuned to the tool changer. On a lathe with a tool setter, I imagine some reference to that has to be maintained.

Thanks for the response! That procedure you linked is what I used to attempt to set home on this machine. It just doesn't allow me to set the APZ to 1 for any of the axes.

That's interesting about the relation of the home position to the bumpers. My plan was just to set the home positions where they are now since it was shut down at X and Y zero. I realize the X is dropping with all the power on / off cycles I'm putting it through, but I can check it with the tools I have touched off in the turret. Then adjust accordingly.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
"Just set it to 1" Sounds to me like you are missing some steps?

On mine (Hardinge) I need to set the axis "X distance" from some other feature.
Make sure that APZ is set to 0
Cycle the power (if not already done)
JOG
POS (likely hit 2wice to git to the U/W screen)
Key in your U, W, or whtnot, and that label will blink
Enter your current location.
Then you may need to handwheel to another position - per the manual (it can be figgered out otherwise if you cannot find the info)
Set APZ to 1
Cycle power.

When you cycle the power after setting to 0, your readout should come up with a certain value in it. (set by some parameter)
Your axis needs to be at that place when you cycle the power after setting to 1.

Example:
On my E axis (Sub Linear)
My axis needs to be at 28.7 when I finish.
But I touch off with a 3" standard on the collet chuck faces and that is then set to E13.685.
Then I need to wheel it over to 28.7
Then set E APZ to 1
Then cycle the power.

X is easier.
When you cycle the power - you will know about what X dimension that you need to be asit will be on the CRT.
I use the 3" std up agginst a bar in the collet.
1" bar = U7.000 ENTER.
Handwheel to U16.550 (my machines preset paramiter - nothing special about that number otherwise) set to 1 and cycle power.

Obviously you have some experience with this, so maybe my routine is different than yours?
Just puting it out there how mine is done. (did it just today)


--------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
Wondering if you got your machine going yet?

I just set zero on a Hardinge Swiss lathe with an 18 yesterday, and although it was essentially the same control, and the same builder, the zero set proceedure was different.

IDK if the difference can be blamed on a 18 v/s 18i or not?

You just really need to have the cheat sheet for that particular machine.


-----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

wmpy

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
I haven't had a chance to get back to it yet. I'm not looking forward to it, to be honest.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
It's easy to find other things that need done when you don't wunna doo something eh?


---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

wmpy

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
It's easy to find other things that need done when you don't wunna doo something eh?


---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Very much so. There's always so much to do. When I've got to beat my head against the wall figuring something out, that gets put on the back-burner in favor of things I know I can do efficiently.
 

wmpy

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
So, Ox motivated me to dig into this deeper. I found that one of my operation manuals describes a "zero point adjustment function". You get to it by pressing the Custom button on the Fanuc control panel to get to an extra "operation panel". It has things like changing the chucks to ID or OD chucking and tuning on machine lock mode.

So, with the zero point adjustment function turned on, I was able to flip the APZ bits for X and Z to one. I thought it would let me do a zero return by jogging away from the home position and then jogging back in zero return mode, but no dice. It wouldn't move at all in zero return mode. I'm thinking there's got to be a way to do this since the parts book shows home switches. Once I flipped the APZ bits and cycled the power, the machine came up in overtravel for both the X and Z. I homed each out, and they both moved about 10 mm (just a guess) in the negative direction. I find it strange that the "home position" isn't actually where the APZ bit is set to 1. Oh well, I can work with this.

As an aside and warning to anyone who might have a machine set up like this, the reason the batteries went dead was because we completely missed the warnings that they were getting low. When the machine first powers up, the first screen you get is the MESSAGE screen telling you that the bar feed is in alarm. So, you go initialize the bar feed and then go back to the machine and hit reset. That's where the mistake is. By hitting reset, we were clearing the battery low warning alarms that were showing up on the ALARM screen. So, now after initializing the bar feed, we're going to bring up the ALARM screen to check for low battery alarms before pressing reset.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
I think that from what I have read here over the years, that in some cases - like yours - where you have L/S's as well as Battery Back-Up Encoders, that maybe you need to position your slides close to your L/S's, and then cycle your HOME routine. If you hit the switches within your 10mm (?) travel, then it will HOME.

Maybe....

But I am surprised that you was getting anything after switching the APZ to 1.
Seems that you would need to be in "0" to be manipulating it.

???

Again - you just need to have the documented routine for that (every) specific model machine as there seems to be so many different ways to skin a mink...


--------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

ravikg

Plastic
Joined
Mar 2, 2022
Sometimes help to move the axis at least for one motor rotation (without zero set). After that movement should be no problem to set 1 on APZ. Sometimes would help to set 0 to APC set APZ to 1 and APC to 1. MCS-158 could has also specific options which allowing to set zero on each axis- check all available options.
 

barbter

Diamond
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
On Tour...
So absolute encoders - parameter 1815 think of it as a digital readout - you zero it. That's all, yes?
You have to be in the correct axis position you want, flip the 1815 parameter (zero), then power off/reboot.
If you now have overtravel, it sounds like you have reset your zero position, in the middle of your axis stroke?
If this is the case, you have to open up your overtravel parameters, to a large enough value to allow you to travel to your wanted position, then traverse to it, zero, reboot, then adjust your overtravel parameter to be the previous value (2mm or whatever).
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
It does not always set to "0".
It looks at another preset parameter.
I would have to dig for it, but there is a param that has preset values for such - if it is employed.
I have one machine that does use this preset value, and apparently I have 2 that doo NOT use it, and those then go to "0".
At least on one particular axis anyhow...


-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

barbter

Diamond
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
On Tour...
It does not always set to "0".
It looks at another preset parameter.
I would have to dig for it, but there is a param that has preset values for such - if it is employed.
I have one machine that does use this preset value, and apparently I have 2 that doo NOT use it, and those then go to "0".
At least on one particular axis anyhow...


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Iv'e only had the experience on 3axis vmcs.
If you have Opp spindle etc, I guess preset values make sense.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
Well, in all honesty, if I had my way, my mills would never make Z0 without a tool offset already in there.
Z0 on a mill should be the spindle nose to the table.

:soapbox:


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 








 
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