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Turn- Mill Controller / Machine recommendation

Flowing

Plastic
Joined
Jul 17, 2022
Hi together,

Until today I was only reading your comments/recommandations.

In the near future we want to buy a mill turn machine, so that we can produce all our prototypes inhouse.
What are the pros and cons of following controllers for this kind of machines?
- Fanuc
- Siemens
- Mazatrol
Are there more controllers?

Actually our favorites would be Doosan SMX2100ST, DMG Mori NTX2000, but we would also be openminded for other machines.
 

Kingbob

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Location
Louisiana
do you plan to program your new mill turn from the onboard controller? I'd start with the software you are using or plan to use and see who of the upper tier of builders is best integrated with what you are already using. I offer this advice due to your particular use case. If you are prototyping with this machine I would find what will fit best with your current software ecosystem.
 

TKassoc

Cast Iron
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
Oakland, CA
Willemin-Macodel uses almost exclusively Fanuc on the mill-turn machines along with their own layer of macros and tool management on top. They have made some little 308 dental mills with Mitsubishi controls that never made it to the states and I think they have one 508S2 with Heidenhein in the US. A normal buyer looking to get one machine won't get a choice of anything but Fanuc because that's what is supported well in the US.
 

Flowing

Plastic
Joined
Jul 17, 2022
do you plan to program your new mill turn from the onboard controller? I'd start with the software you are using or plan to use and see who of the upper tier of builders is best integrated with what you are already using. I offer this advice due to your particular use case. If you are prototyping with this machine I would find what will fit best with your current software ecosystem
At the moment our guys from the tooling are working with CreoNC.And I'm using a lot fusion360.
But if we do buy this kind of machine, we're going to buy a new also a new CAM. At the moment we're looking towards Mastercam or Hypermill.. But also here we're openminded and would also try other products.
Personally I would prefere a build in solution for Creo (7.0 at the moment). any advice from people using millturn machines?
 

Milling man

Aluminum
Joined
Aug 6, 2021
Location
Moscow, Russia
Actually our favorites would be
I think, first of all, you need to choose the whole machine, and not just the CNC :) A bad machine with a good CNC will not be the best solution, just like a good machine with a bad CNC.
There will be as many specific answers to the question "Which CNC is better" as there are people who answer this question. It's like asking "What brand of car is best?". To me personally, Fanuc CNCs have always seemed to be made by Nazis sitting in a secret base in Antarctica to increase the level of suffering in the world. But this is my subjective opinion.
Mazatrol and Mitsubishi, in my opinion, occupy an intermediate position in terms of convenience between Fanuc and Sinumerik. In fact, until nothing breaks, all systems will be approximately the same for you in operation if you learn how to manage them.
It seems pretty clear to me that Sinumeric CNCs are far worse supported in the US than Fanuc. This is an important factor for mass production, but perhaps not a very important factor for pilot production.
I have read terrible reviews about the service (and generally about their technical support) DMGMori in the US many times, but I have never come across terrible reviews about Doosan's support.
As for turning-milling machines, I would definitely advise you to look at Mazak and Okuma - these are cool Japanese machines, reliable and well-made.
, DMG Mori NTX2000
 
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escapethewrmhole

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Esprit is the cleanest mill-turn CAM I've seen. I say that as someone who uses Mastercam daily on 100% prototyping work with 408 and 508 Willemin...just in so deep at 20+ years of using it that it's really hard to change.

Most of my career has been on Mastercam. I bought an NTX2000 last year and bought esprit. The learning curve is pretty steep, and it is clunky for some things (but so is masterscam) It is objectively better for mill-turn or multi-spindle work. It just is.
 

Philabuster

Diamond
Joined
Jul 12, 2006
Location
Tempe, AZ
Depending on the complexity of your parts, you may not need a separate CAM system if you go with a Mazak Integrex.

I work in R&D and been running a Mazak Integrex i400S for the last 5 years. We purchased It new in 2017 and has the Smooth X control. In that time, I have only ran 1 program from a CAM system. That was it.

If you have parts that need full 5-axis motion, then you will definitely need a CAM system. Integrexes are extremely complex machines and making a post for them is NOT the same as a traditional 5-axis mill for example. Mazak worked closely with Esprit to develop a turn key solution. Paying someone to develop a post for Siemens NX was going to cost north of $40k.
 

barbter

Diamond
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
On Tour...
As much as I don't like Mazatrol, for prototyping I think it would be the best choice.
I would put Siemens shopturn/Mill above Mazak....but as said it depends upon what the OP is doing - complexity, simultaneous etc.
Also, although Siemens is very fast, millturn by nature is more complex which = longer 'grammin time.
And you don't want a machine like this sat idle while being 'grammed....so CAM system then gets thrown into the conversation....and suitable verification....$$$$
And then with CAM generated progs, control becomes (mostly) irrellevant....as all it's then doing is running the prog....
 

Milling man

Aluminum
Joined
Aug 6, 2021
Location
Moscow, Russia
For those that do not know, yes you can program a Mazak while its busy running another part. I do it all the time.
I just wanted to write this, but then I thought - the author of the topic was asking about prototyping, that is, most of the time the machine will make the first part. Not every person has enough nerves to run a new program on a $500+k machine and not follow its execution, but calmly program the next part.
As for programming from the machine - yes, on Mazatrol it is quite simple, if we are talking about simple details. But this requires a higher qualification of the operator :(
 

bryan_machine

Diamond
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Location
Near Seattle
The bigger issue is that if parts are prototypes, most every program is in fact be first-run-proven and so the operator will often be watching it, checking things like bore dimensions, and generally occupying the controllers UI for most of the run.
(I do this a very great deal.) So parallel programming at the control MAY not be that useful for at least some of those parts. (Doesn't mean it's not good to know about....)
 

kenton

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
If the person writing the program is the person running the machine it doesn't really matter whether the program is written on a computer or the control, the machine is still not running while the program is getting written if you have to watch the machine.
 

Fancuku

Cast Iron
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
As for programming from the machine - yes, on Mazatrol it is quite simple, if we are talking about simple details. But this requires a higher qualification of the operator :(

If all they are going to be doing is prototyping then they better not have an operator. They need a full blown machinist that can make pretty much anything.
 

Fancuku

Cast Iron
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
And you don't want a machine like this sat idle while being 'grammed....so CAM system then gets thrown into the conversation....and suitable verification....$$$$

A machine that is going to be used for prototype work will definitely be sitting idle when you're "cammin".
Prototype work usually means one dedicated machinist and one machine that he programs and runs every day.

My vote is for a Mazak.
 








 
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