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Turret alignment with spindle

BodoW

Plastic
Joined
Mar 25, 2023
Location
Metro Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Hello there,

I've just got a new index drill 2" 4D from SECO and when I wanted to set my offsets for it I realized that my tool seems to be not aligned with the spindle.
How I found out was I was going to cut about a .5" deep to measure the hole size and make my offset setting.
But when I went in I heard a strange sound, stopped and moved the tool away from the workpiece the I saw that something was rubbing
on the drill body where it's not supposed to have a contact with the tool. Inside the hole I have although this little pin what you can get while facing a part.
So I think when I look from the spindle to the turret that the turret has to move a bit more counterclockwise to be aligned.
The tool touching the part was on the backside.
Of course I will check it tomorrow more exactly and dial it in to see how much the toolholder is off.
My question is how to align the turret with the spindle. I believe that our machine has a somewhat unique feature that you can set the toolpositions individually.
The machine is a NISSIN NST 40/150 from 1984 with a FANUC 6T Mod.B control. On the backside inside the control cabinet is a box with coarse and fine adjustments for the tools. Attach is a pic of this box.
NISSIN is now part of SNK.
I have the manuals for the machine but unfortunately the explanation is not so clear.
My boss said that Mori Seikis have the same turret at that time but even if that's true but I doubt that they have the same control for it.
We had a while ago a service tech here because some toolpositions where not clamping and he tried to adjust the turret position with moving the encoder. But the encoder changes all tools at the same time. I mentioned to him that the machine has a fine adjustment on the back and he tried to adjust it from there. It worked so far but he didn't checked the tool alignment. He even said that he never saw this feature in another machine.
I guess the machine is older than him.
But maybe somebody here has ever seen this kind of feature and could help me to adjust it.
A different question to this problem is how do you solve the problem when your tool is not aligned with the spindle and how do you measure it?
For the boring tools I can use a dial gauge, that's easy. But how do you measure and adjust a turning bar?
When I face some parts I always have this little pin in the middle left.
Do you just put some shim under the tool?

Thanks for some advice in advance
Bodo


ADJUSTMENT.jpg
 
If your indexable drill is below center, it may leave a standing tit at the center. If it is offset far enough, the drill body will rub, as you know. The opposite can happen when the tool is too high. No tit, but rubbing and mashing. Lots of growly noise and bad words.

Look at your tooling first. I've seen bent drills, bent tool block flanges, simple misaligned installation of the tool block, and trapped dirt and swarf.

Check all that. Then, and only then, look at your machine alignment.
 
Ok, I will do that first. But have you really seen a brand-new bent index drill? Should that not fall trough the quality control?
Is SECO so bad?
But as that is a used machine I would think more about something with the tool block or the turret body.
When I look at the turret itself I know that it had some crashes in the past and I would say this were not minor ones.
You can see it when you look at this pic.
But thanks so far. Turret.jpg
 
1st step- indicate a stick too pocket in the X direction and see if the pocket is parallel to your X axis slide. Do this at several positions. If they are not 0-0 or very close, then your turret needs to be aligned. Look in the parts book and see if the turret uses a pair of curvic couplings for turret alignment- one on the turret and the other half on the saddle or turret housing.
 
The ribs on that seco drill help, we had one of the older drills without the ribs and it had rubbing marks all over it. It could be rubbing or it could be chips, that what I thought when the new model had a different shank design.
 
Yeah some big crashes for sure. Look at the lowest corner of the drill tool block and what looks like a hump on the turret. Like the block has been forced downwards. This alignment surface may be compromised. The way the block mounts to the face of the turret makes it tougher to get this block out of alignment.

With a short test indicator in the spindle, make sure the face slot in the turret is parallel to x, and the face of the turret is also parallel to x. Then you can sweep the face slot. It should be centered on the spindle axis. Another way to check if the slot is centered on the spindle is to turn a diameter smaller than the slot and bring the slot up on this diameter. Then use feeler gauges to see if the gap is same on bottom and top.

It's tough to tell what is wrong before you systematically check everything. And with the turret as ugly as it is, I agree it's probably not the drill being bent or manufactured incorrectly. The bent drills I've seen have been smaller diameter anyway.
 
I have lots of these SECO drills - they're awesome.

Good chance the "Y" of your holder is off, also your turret is likely deflecting compounding any X error you may have. In both cases we dial in the Y as close as we can get it, and offset up in X until we get the correct drilling diameter then send it.
 
Hi there,
So the first what I did now in the morning was that I've put a test indicator on my tool #1 CNMG OD Tool and moved the turret up and down.
Over a length of around 4" I had a difference of .013".
In my opinion it should be 0.
I will go on with the rest of my tools.
As I've studied on the weekend the maintenance manual it seems that the box I've shown in my initial post
is adjusting the rotary position of the turret for each tool individually.
First I will record all tool positions and will try to adjust it step by step.
Thx so far.
 
So, as I mentioned before I've checked if the toolslots are moving parallel to the X movement of the turret.
Only 1 tool slot was parallel. The others are out and need to be readjusted. I'm in contact with SNK to get the right procedure
because with the box on the backside you can adjust the rotation of the turret for each tool individually.
Then I've put on the good slot a ID Toolholder and adjusted it in all directions.
In X was easy with the turret handwheel. In the Y direction I adjusted it with some adjustment screw which
I found on the toolblock. I don't have a professional training so I have to figure everything out by myself.
Not every Toolholder has this kind of screw and first I didn't know for what it is. But when I looked more on it
I saw that the screw goes against a small step and when I tighten the screw it can move sideways in Y.
So I adjusted the Holder and put later the bushing (Reducer) in and corrected it a little bit.
It was absolutely on center.
Then I've put my drill in and tried it again to make a hole.
In the beginning it was absolutely quiet but when I went deeper it started to make unpleasant noise again and I stopped immediately.
I saw again a tit in the middle and mic'ed the hole diameter. Instead of 2.0000" it was 2.0281" which is a lot off.
Unfortunately I don't have a precision 1.5" bar for my bushing.
I have only some precision ground 1.25" round bar and when I was at home now I thought I could use my steadyline bar from SECO
which is 1.25" but it will be definitely real straight. (I hope so)
Tomorrow I will put my 1.25 bushing and the steadyline in and check if it is parallel with my spindle.
I should have done it earlier but I've checked the other things first.

I have the manuals at home with some drawings and will see if there is some explanation how to adjust the turret if it's not aligned with the spindle.
I'm even wondering about the lubrication of the way from the turret. As the turret has 2 boxways and the front way is lubricated with a little film. But the rear way there comes, when the oil is a bit warmer, a kind of Oil-fall out. It is really a lot.
I have on my coolant a real oil carpet after a short time.
When our Service tech was there I mentioned these and to my boss too but both meant "It's probably a worn wiper".
It's a real pain when you do not have a good support either from the tech and/or from your boss.

The tech was there and adjusted some on the turret because some toolpositions didn't wanted to clamp.
But he never checked the alignment after he adjusted the settings on the back.

I'm not very happy about this.

Anyway thanks for your help so far.
Bodo
 
Update
So I come closer to the reason of my problems.
I've put in the morning the steadyline bar in my ID Toolholder and measured it.
Over a length of around 7" it's around .03" off.
In the drawing and parts I didn'T find any adjustment for this.
Maybe the rear gib from the way is loose which would explain this and
some shatter problems too.
Please correct me if my thinking is wrong but when I tighten the rear gib the turret should move.
Can this be?
Anyway I'll check it.
 
UPDATE:
So yesterday was our Service Tech there.
First we've started with the basics and checked the levelling of the machine. My level said it's good but he had a much more better one and so we adjusted it according to his level. It was not twisted, only the chip-conveyor side was a bit lower.
After this we've measured the alignment again and it was out in the same way I've measured before. The Tip of my steadyline holder is more to the backside. We've looked everywhere if there are some adjustments for the Turret. Unfortunately we didn't find anything.
Then he called some Service Guy from SNK and he didn't know anything either. He mentioned that maybe the Turkite on the Way of the Turret might be worn but we've checked it with a big pry-bar and there was no play.
I can't believe that there is no possibility to align the turret. I don't think that they produced the machine and were only relying on a precise production. Inside the Turret are no curvic couplings, the machine has Hirth couplings.
Anyway I have still a email-request running at SNK to get some answers how to align the Turret. (if it's possible to adjust)

For now I will try on Monday to adjust the Toolholder-Block.
The Holder has some play to adjust the holder in Y. If I turn the holder a little bit while it's with the bolts snug the the Turret surface I might be able to use my Index Drill to produce my part.

After I've made my Part and my boss is not permanently bugging me I'll have some time and make and an excentric Sleeve in the Holder.
I had this idea before by myself and after I've discussed it with a colleague my boss showed me a YT Video where a guy is doing exactly what I've thought about before. The Title of the video is "The drill is in the chuck".
I've read about this later in a Thread here that some people say instead of a Reamer a Boring Head would be better. But I have only a Boring Head for a R8 Spindle and while I have to go around 4" deep I'm not so confident that a 3/4" Boring Bar will not produce shatter.
I have no carbide bar, only HSS.
 








 
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