Underneath drive shaft removal (SB 117C)

[TRC]

I may have made a mistake. During my restoration, I realized that my SB was not using balls (or roller) bearing, but rather what seem like an oil (or maybe a plain) bearing for it's underneath dive shaft. I decided to remove the whole assembly (that went relatively well). I'm now at the step of removing the flywheel (or the v belt pulley) to dissasemble the whole thing, but I'm stuck at the taper pin. This is when I made a mistake.

At first, I did not realized it was a taper pin, since the head and was round and the bottom was smashed like a rivet. Therefor, I drilled the the bottom, like I would to remove a rivet, and tried smashing it out. It did not went out. After two our of fighting, I stopped and I decided to drill the pin out on both side of the casting and put a bigger one in when I'm gonna reassemble. To do so, I drilled on both side until I was a little bit in the shaft.

Now, their should not be any pin left to secure the wheel on the shaft, but It's still not coming out. I saw a few video on the restoration of a 9A model, and for those, it seem like the assembly is using a clearance or a locational fit, but on my 117C, I cannot move the thing even with a soft hammer and a few solid blow.

I'm wondering if by drilling these holes, if I did not created an interface where the edge of the shaft and the wheel are meshing, in a way that it prevent me to remove the whole thing, or if the fit on these models are some kind of interference fit.

Either way, I will need to get this shaft out, and I would like to know if someone here managed to get out of a similar situation or if anyone have more information about this particular model and the fitting of the shaft on the wheel.

I'm putting a few picture online, right there :

https://imgur.com/a/UQv3U25

For the unitiated, it's imgur, a website that let you post large picture for free. I cannot post them here, they are too big.

 

[JBTR]

My gear puller would not budge my (Heavy 10) flywheel pulley. I went to my local Irish-descent autoparts chain and they have a 7-ton puller that they lend out (with deposit). That did the job but I had to use an 18 inch breaker, plus a crowbar to prevent rotation. I also used that puller to remove the cone pulleys.

 

[JBTR]

Adding a few pics because my phone's images were also too large.
I'm not a fan of the image host sites because you never know when they'll go under or hold your pics for ransom. I lot of forums have missing photos from posts made years ago.

So I just send them to my PC and resize them.

If a moderator/owner is reading this: I'd be real surprised if the forum software didn't have image resize capability, at least in an add-in. Or maybe it's just not configured.

 

[TRC]

Adding a few pics because my phone's images were also too large.
I'm not a fan of the image host sites because you never know when they'll go under or hold your pics for ransom. I lot of forums have missing photos from posts made years ago.

So I just send them to my PC and resize them.

If a moderator/owner is reading this: I'd be real surprised if the forum software didn't have image resize capability, at least in an add-in. Or maybe it's just not configured.




View attachment 368108View attachment 368109

This sound like a good idea. Did you used a press to put it back together?

 

[texasgeartrain]

On posting pics:
You can post pic on an image hosting site, though history with photobucket has showed us that long term, it may be a problem.
Current solutions will be posted at the end of this thread, and the current work arounds here:

Posting Pictures on the South Bend Forum

First off, I use these guys... pretty simple even a CAVE MAC can do it LOL... TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting On my CANON, I can use "normal" or "infinity" for decent pics but can also get too close to focus properly. Try the MACRO setting by taking the camera...

www.practicalmachinist.com

For TRC, you have the older style of lower cone pulley assembly. There is a newer style lower assembly with roller bearings.

Taking it apart is the whole job. Reassembly will be much easier. Unsure if you are taking it apart to clean and lube, or make a repair. Due to location, and not very easy to shoot oil into the cups, lube there is often neglected, so the shaft and/or bore can wear. Usually worse on the pully side bearing. If it clanks up and down in the bore, might want to have the bore, re-bored, and a bushing added. If you put a dial indicator on it, and its inside of .005", I might leave it alone.

Something maybe unseen, is a floating ring that kinda sorta sits in the oil res. It works as a bit of an oil singer. During disassembly be mindful of it and try not to destroy it.

 

[TRC]

Something maybe unseen, is a floating ring that kinda sorta sits in the oil res. It works as a bit of an oil singer. During disassembly be mindful of it and try not to destroy it.

Can I see it by looking in one of the orifices? Or is it not interfering with the shaft and probably sitting at the bottom?

 

[texasgeartrain]

Can I see it by looking in one of the orifices? Or is it not interfering with the shaft and probably sitting at the bottom?

My bad, its in your 2nd pic on imgur. The brass looking ring that is bent. You can straighten it.

As you feed the shaft out and back in, you might have to feed it off and on to keep it from getting hung up.

 

[TRC]

My bad, its in your 2nd pic on imgur. The brass looking ring that is bent. You can straighten it.

As you feed the shaft out and back in, you might have to feed it off and on to keep it from getting hung up.

Ok, thank you.

WIt's missing in one of my reservoir. Should I put a replacement?

 

[JBTR]

This sound like a good idea. Did you used a press to put it back together?

Well, they're still apart. I'm doing an overall refurb so I have a lot of things happening in parallel. I hope to reassemble the underdrive later this month. With the shaft and the bores cleaned up, I hope that they are mild interference fits that I can tap into place. I could use the press, but since I have the taper pin holes to line up on the flywheel pulley, and the set screw counterbores (2 @ 90 degree offsets) to line up on the cone, I think those alignments will be very difficult or impossible if the fit is as tight as it was when I removed them. Also since they have the taper pin and set screws, they don't need to be a super tight fit.

 

[wood2steel]

I will have to look at an old shaft we pulled from a 16" lower unit rebuild. I swear I don't remember taper pins in those. Had heavy wear so we line bored and pressed in 4 new bronze bushings in the housing

 

[TRC]

To leave a trace of what I did:

The issue is partially solved. The puller was a great idea, the pulley was easy to remove. Make sure to get one without a spiky end or you will damage your shaft. I used a cheap 40$ amazon puller, so you probably don't need a quality one.

I did a mistake drilling the pin. I did not drill it in it's entirety, mainly because I was not drilling it straight enough, and a part of it was well hidden alongside the hole surface, partially blocking the removal of the shaft.

Do not try to grab onto the retaining ring with the puller jaw. A small bit of the edge came off. It's not broken, but mine is now dented.

I'll post again when I'm done cleaning and reassembling the underneath drive assembly to let people know what equipment I used.

 

[wood2steel]

How much wear do you have on the pulley shaft to bearings.?
More than .003--.006 and you'll have some major rattling when you put it back together

 

[TRC]

How much wear do you have on the pulley shaft to bearings.?
More than .003--.006 and you'll have some major rattling when you put it back together

I havent completely remove the shaft. I'll tell you when I did.

 

[TRC]

Here is some picture of my shaft, with a picture of my modified puller (I'm proud of this one, I could never make a more janky modification if I tried). The bearings and the shaft itself seem to be badly worn on the pulley side of the assembly. As you can see, there is some bad scratch. There also is a .006" of my shaft that is gone (hopefully, otherwise my ways are badly worn).

The opposite end of the shaft seem to be in "bad but I might be able to make it work" condition.

Is this shaft in an acceptable shape to be used with new bearing?

While I'm at it, does anyone have de dimensions and fit of the bearings?

https://imgur.com/a/rNsSTt4

 

[wood2steel]

TRC, your shaft is pretty much toast. I can send you a picture of an almost identical damaged shaft from our 16 sb rebuild. Unfortunately you will have to line bored the 4 bearing ports, install new bronze inserts and cut your shaft to fit pulley properly and that will establish your bearing internal specs; a slightly tedious series of steps but it will put your machine back to good as new. The last 16 I bored out has been humming ever day for last 7 years. Be sure to get me your contact info and I'll get those pics to you. Really not that difficult to manually line bored that housing

 

[TRC]

TRC, your shaft is pretty much toast. I can send you a picture of an almost identical damaged shaft from our 16 sb rebuild. Unfortunately you will have to line bored the 4 bearing ports, install new bronze inserts and cut your shaft to fit pulley properly and that will establish your bearing internal specs; a slightly tedious series of steps but it will put your machine back to good as new. The last 16 I bored out has been humming ever day for last 7 years. Be sure to get me your contact info and I'll get those pics to you. Really not that difficult to manually line bored that housing

Well... I guess this old shaft will have a last run. Might not be the best option, but I only have one lathe. Gotta love machine that are needed to repair themselve.

I'll send you a MP about my info.