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Understanding bar feeders. What the heck do I need.

viper

Titanium
Joined
May 18, 2007
Location
nowhereville
Sorry for the repeat post but I thought before I blindly put a bar feed on our Mori, I should understand more about them to make a smart decision.


We really do not have room for a 12ft barfeed right now but will next year in the new shop. We can fit a max "contraption" length of 6ft. I have read pros and cons on the 12ft in that whipping can be an issue but most companies still prefer them. Our Mori has a 3ft draw tube thus we always cut to 3ft lengths. Getting OLD and wasteful. Just ran a stainless job that would have yielded another 100 parts with just 6ft bars!

We mostly run longer run jobs on that machine (1000 parts and above). My questions are, what length of bar feed are we looking for to feed 6ft bar lengths? What are the types of feeders out there? I have seen air and electric. Our machine may very well not have a barfeed interface built into the 0T-C control so that will probably affect the type of feeder we use. Do we have to have a bump stop in place when the feed or can they feed accurately? Keep in mind, we may not have an interface for good control feedback.

Do these feeders have a plunger that extends into the draw tube to feed the bar in the machine? What if I am running 1/4in bar?

I have heard some can catch the remnant and retrieve it, how the heck does that happen?

Do I still need to make spindle liners or donuts for the draw tube?


EDIT: fi you guys happen to have a good link or reference for this education, feel free to just post it up. Thanks!
 

SwissPro

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 13, 2006
Location
Illinois
A six foot length isn't going to be long enough for a six foot bar feeder because you have the length of the pusher to consider. One exception would be dual pusher magazine style automatic bar loaders. Most all bar loader manufacturers make models with this feature. During a bar change the long pusher is retracted, then when the top of the channel opens it lifts the long pusher out with it. The new bar drops in and a short pusher positions the bar up into the lathe headstock. Then the shrt pusher retracts, the lid closed and the long pusher is now behind the bar.

Usually the pusher has a finger collet on it. The bar is then gripped by a set of grippers and inserted into the pusher collet. Then the bar will finally be fed out to the "top cut" position, where the cut off tool can face off the end of the bar.

Anyway, you don't say what diameter capacity the bar feeder needs to have. Let me know and I can lay out the various options from different manufacturers along with pricing.
 

viper

Titanium
Joined
May 18, 2007
Location
nowhereville
Duh, that was a pretty important detail. we would probably look at .25-1.625" bars. I would love to be able to run smaller if need but honestly, those jobs would be few and far between so we could just pull those if needed.

As I understand you, possibly a 6ft barfeed may actually be 12ft long to account for the push rod?


OH, I might add, we are not looking for the new hotness here. Hell, I may have to settle for some type of rest and keep pulling. I think a feeder can be much faster and eliminates the need to build a rest I guess. We pull at around 100ipm so we do not pull off the bar. My biggest concern is if the bar hangs up a bit or the puller slips and parts are short. So far, we check every single part for length but have never had a problem. We have made pullers from SS, drilled and crosshatched them.
 

demoj21

Stainless
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Location
IL.
LNS quickload

I have a LNS quickload bar feed for sale in Albion IL. for $2750.00. I bought and have never used it and it is taking up valuable space. It could be just what you are looking for, i can send you pics and specs if you have any interest in it.Swisspro could probably tell you if it would work for you.Thanks Jason.
 

viper

Titanium
Joined
May 18, 2007
Location
nowhereville
Sent cha a PM.



I would still like to learn how they stabilize the material, how they would pull the remnant back, if I still have to make spindle liners, etc? The thing that gets me is it was noted that there is a collet device that may capture the end of the bar. If that is the case, how the heck would you feed that through my spindle liners? ie, the collet is bigger than my bar.

From what I have gathered from OX, these babies really do not need an interface with the control, they just need some signals like chuck open, close, etc. The rest can be tuned with dwells in the program?? I would be very curious to try precision feeding with a servo so I do not have to use a bump stop. Just faster and time is money!
 

Mark McGrath

Diamond
Joined
Mar 15, 2002
Location
Scotland
The OT has a parameter to turn on for a barfeed.Pusher types only need the e-stop line,barfeed in position and end of bar signals connected.This is for hydraulic types.A servo type will need a bit more integrating.I run 12ft LNS Hydraulic ones.They don`t bump as such,after part off,bring the stop up to the face of the bar,open the chuck and feed stop back.Close chuck.
 

SwissPro

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 13, 2006
Location
Illinois
All right now we're getting somewhere. 1-5/8" capacity is convenient because any 42mm capacity bar feeder or mag loader will work.

Lets start with the major players; you have LNS who sells their own stuff. Edge Technologies which is a division of Hydromat. They used to be Iemca in the USA but now they sell FMB and their own private label Taiwanese loaders. There is Iemca who now imports their own stuff and some of it is built in Charlotte, N.C. And there is MTA who imports mostly Taiwanese bar feeders/loaders except for the world's most expensive bar loader that is made in Germany.

Then you have smaller companies like Spego, Lexair, Etc.

Start with LNS - The Quicload that demoj21 is offering will work. But it doesn't solve your problem as you cut the bar to headstock lengths. It will automatically load a new bar when you run out of stock. It is also possible to put an extension on and run slightly longer bars. But nowhere near the 6' minimum you are looking for.

So starting with their hydrodynamic bar feeders, LNS makes two types. For your application you would want either an HYS 6.42HS-5.2 or a THB 42-4.8LC. The HYS is the classic Gatling Gun style bar feeder. It has 6 tubes built into a large diameter barrel. When you change from say 3/8" bar to 1" bar, you simply unclamp the barrel and rotate it to the proper size tube. The pushers stay in the tubes. The end of the pusher is basically a piston and your feed force is provided by hydraulic oil pushing against the pusher. LNS makes this bar feed in 6' and 12' lengths. Brand new this bar feed has a list price of $20,500.00 and you'll need to add another $2,000.00 for spindle liners, plus $2,200.00 for install.

The THB42 is a single tube type of system. When you change from 3/8" to 1" stock you remove the liner tube which slides out of the front of the bar feed, and slide in the 1" capacity tube. The downside to this is that the bar feed is hydrodynamic and uses hydraulic oil to both push and support the bar like the HYS. So when you pull the tiubes out it tends to drip oil on the floor. The upside is that the bar feed costs only $13,895.00 new.

Either of these bar feeds are easy to find used for far less. However be aware that if you buy the bar feed used you might have to buy new pushrods for it. The reason being that the end of bar signal comes from a pressure switch on the bar feed. When the bar feed is installed the service tech takes some measurements then cuts the pushrod to length. When the pushrod is at the end of its travel it goes by a cross hole in the tube which allows hydraulic oil to bleed off into a pressure switch. If the push rods are too long in the used bar feed you are OK. If they are too short you'll get the end of bar signal early and will still have bar enough in the spindle to make more parts.

Also with any hydro-bar type feeder you have to put a healthy chamfer or cone on the bar end that rides against the pusher. I just buzz the chamfer on a belt sander, but there are also bar prep machines that will cut the chamfer with an insert tool.

Also keep in mind that these bar feeder are fed from the front. They swing out and you load the bar from the front side, so you'll need 6+ feet clear on an angle from the front of the bar feed. Also the pusher takes up room, so a 6' bar feed will need 8-9' of space from the left end of your lathe.

The upside to a hydro-bar is that you don't really need to buy a bar feed interface from Mori. You can just wire the end of bar signal into your 24V E-stop circuit. Then feed bar at the beginning of the lathe cycle. When you run out of stock the machine will go into E-stop. You want to run this through a momentary relay. Otherwise you won't be able to restart the bar feed to retract the pusher and thus won't be able to clear the alarm.

LNS also makes bar loaders. What you would want is the Hydrobar Sprint 552. New a set up for a 42mm machine costs $40,650.00 plus $2,900.00 for install. Plus whatever Mori charges for a bar feed interface. Again you can find these used. The upside is that a 6' feeder is right around 7' and bars load from the side. So if floor space is an issue this is a good way to go. Since it changes bars automatically, you can run the lathe unattended if you want. These bar loaders are also available used, although 6' versions are a little more rare than 12 footers.

LNS on the web - http://www.lnsamerica.com/

Lexair makes a bar feeder similar to the LNS THB. They call it the Rhino Bar. Lexair is made in Kentucky and it's a very decent lower cost bar feed. I haven't quoted one in some time but I believe it's right around the same price as the LNS THB. Maybe a little less expensive. See Lexair here - http://www.lexairinc.com/mta/index.html

Spego has a unique design. Like the LNS HYS all the tubes are self contained in a large barrel. But on the Spego they are in-line. They offer a wide variety of models to choose from. I only have current pricing on the Swiss models but based on that they are a couple of grand cheaper than the LNS HYS. Spego makes a nice bar feeder right here in the USA. But the company is run by a couple of "good old boys" and delivery can be hit or miss. Service is a little sketchy but these are simple devices. Parts are usually in stock. See Spego here - http://www.spegousa.com/new.htm

Edge Technologies - Edge has by far the best service and support. They sell the FMB line from Germany as well as some private label Taiwanese bar feeds. The FMB Turbo 555 is the mother of all bar loaders. By far the best. It has a Fanuc PLC and it weighs in at a hefty 6,500 pounds. It is easy to change over. It has roller supports on the nose for round bar AND bearing blocks for hex and shaped stock. By far the quietest best designed bar loader out there. It comes with a hefty price tag to match. Base price is $43,600.00 and by the time you add additional channels and install you'll be spending near 50 G's. But I can't say enough about this particular bar loader. It's the best by a mile.

Edge also offers a copy of the Iemca BOSS that is made in Taiwan. It's called the Patriot 551. I think this bar loader is a relative steal at $28,500. Figure mid 30's installed with all the capacity sets you'll need. It's a faithful copy. I'm pretty sure many of the components are interchangeable with the Iemca. http://www.edgetechnologies.com/

That brings us to Iemca. Since they fired Hydromat and went direct in the US through its subsidiary Bucci, service has suffered to say the least. In fairness they are getting better but in my estimation they still have a ways to go.

As for Iemca the bar loaders are made in Italy and until the split with Hydromat, they were the number one brand in the US. The current model that you'd be looking at is the BOSS 545 - http://www.iemca.com/BOSS545_scheda_prodotto.html But if I were looking at used I would also look for the older BOSS 542. You might even find an older TAL65 which in its day was a great bar loader. The BOSS lists for around $35,000.00 and would be in the low 40's installed with capacity sets. Bucci has proven to be very negotiable on pricing though. Probably due to the loss of market share. Iemca was the innovator of the dual pusher system which save on floor space. They also came up with lots of innovations to help reduce changeover time.

I've been to the factory and Iemca builds a quality product. I'm still a little leery of their service in the US. They seem to have gotten a handle on parts though and like I said their service is getting better. I know enough about them that I would buy a used one. It's hard to say that would be the right decision for you though.

Finally you have MTA. They import bar loaders from Taiwan and also sell the Spego product line. If you decide on a Spego, I would buy it through MTA. Their service is better. They have really good service techs, but being a smaller company they don't have very many. so sometimes you have to wait a little. Fortunately their stuff is fairly trouble free despite coming from Taiwan. They are very involved with the factory and have a lot of input into their products.

The bar feeder you'd be interested in would be the Eagle 545 which is made by Fedek who is owned by LNS. Wierd, eh? Anyway the Eagle 545 lists for around 28,000.00 and to that you have to add installation. The eagle is also very similar to the Iemca 542. Maybe not an exact copy but pretty darn close.

MTA also sells Bruening from Germany. I don't have current pricing but they are far and away the most expensive bar loader on the planet. But the cool thing is that they changeover automatically. You enter in the bar size and the thing goes through all sorts of gyrations, changes the channel size, and adjusts itself all automatically.

MTA - http://www.barfeeder.com/ Pages/Barloaders.html#Anchor-MT-1199

A great source for used bar feeder and loaders is Automatics and Machinery

Bar feeders - http://inv.automatics.com/q/webinv/000682=list,4603,0B1103

Bar Loaders - http://inv.automatics.com/q/webinv/000682=list,4603,0B1120

It looks like they've got a bunch of choices that will work for you. Don't be afraid to negotiate hard on used. If you have any questions on these or any other bar feeds let me know.
 

viper

Titanium
Joined
May 18, 2007
Location
nowhereville
WOW! Thanks for the knowledge. I guess one of the questions I am maybe not understanding is the servo type, air, hydraulic, etc. What kind of bar feed am I looking for if I wanted to ignore using a bump stop in the machine and have a feeder capable of precise feeding?


Also, I did not fully understand how these puppies work. They have a pushrod that reaches into the draw tube with a collet of type on the end of it? How is the bar supported? Do I still need supports in the draw tube?

You mention install. We are kind of DIY people here, is this something we can do? Electromechanically inclined here. Also, one thing we may have to do is move this thing out of the way if we need to move equipment since it will be right in a busy path. Is this like setting a machine? ie, do not move it?


ADD: I think the Hydraulic unit may be out if it is going to make a mess all the time. We really don't like to clean up....

What is used to stabilize the bars? Do these have rollers somewhere or is this all done with liners or tubes and it just lays in the feeder? Little confused there.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
AFAIK only 12'ers have remnant retract. (The collet on the end that also guides the end of the bar.) But I don't know if all 12'ers have them? Mine does, but it is a magazine unit. I don't know what those "Gatlin Gun" type have?


I wouldn't trust ENY feeder to feed to length w/o a stop. The whole setup aint that rigid. Why is that such a big deal?


Just one note - don't confuse the LNS Quickload posted earlier (assuming) with a Quickload Servo. The Quickload uses an air motor. It is equall with what LNS offers today as the "Eco-loader".


If you want to run ANY type'a magazine unit you will need to communicate with the control. (Interface)

My post aboot possibly just tying into the feedhold or e-stop circuits was with a basic hydro 12'er.

Short loaders need spindle liners, and these CAN be made to help lengthen your spindle to a more reasonable 4' capacity.


--------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

SwissPro

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 13, 2006
Location
Illinois
Viper,

The servo type are pretty much limited to feeding headstock lengths. Ditto with the air feed ones. The exception being the old Lipe pneumatic feeders. You really don't want one of them anyway given the speeds that modern tooling can run at.

The hydro bars are really clean. Especially the LNS HYS and the Spego. The THB and the Lexair where you have to pull the liners out are the ones that can be a little messy.

The hydro bars use a spindle liner that is around 1 or 2 mm bigger than the pusher diameter to help support the bar. The LNS HYS has 6 different size tube built into the barrel, so you select one close to the bar diameter you are running. The pushers have hardened revolving tips with a female cone on the end. You put a large chamfer on the end of the bar that will match the cone in the revolving tip. The bar feed pumps oil into the tubes, effectively filling them with oil. When the spindle spins the bar the bar will sort of "float up" and spin in the middle of the tube. The pusher keeps pressure on the back of the bar the whole time so the back of the bar is supported in the revolving tip.

The magazine type bar loaders work in the same way except there is a finger collet on the end of the revolving tip and the bar is pressed into the finger collet. The bar loader inserts the bar into the finger collet automatically. The magazine bar loaders use fewer channel sizes to support the bar than the hydro-bar does. So they usually have a roller suppot or bearing blocks in the end to help support the bar. When the pusher reaches the roller support or bearing block they open up to the pusher diameter to allow the pusher to pass through. The magazine bar loaders all have hydraulic oil pumpimg through the channels as well to help float the bar to the center of the channel when it is spinning.

The hydro-bar type feeders use hydraulic pressure to feed forward, so you have to use a stop on the turret to feed against. In a lot of cases you can also feed against the side of the cut off tool or a turning holder.

Most of the magazine bar loaders use an electric gear motor to drive a bicycle type chain which is attached to a flag on the push rod. All newer bar loaders, say anything made in the last decade also have an encoder. So in most cases it is possible to feed without a stop. But the accuracy is only around 1/32"-1/64". So you'll for sure want to take a heavier facing cut to insure against short parts.

The exception would be the older LNS Sprint bar loaders. They used an air motor to drive the chain and feed the bar forward. Somewhere along the way they switched to the electric motor. So if that matters to you, be sure to check.

The magazine bar loaders use spindle liners just like the hydro-bars. You have one size for every channel set except for the 42mm set. A set of 3-5 channels would easily cover the entire range. So you would have 2-4 spindle liners. The LNS HYS hydro-bar has six tubes and you would order it with one set of five spindle liners. The Spego has I think 5 tubes so you would get one set of four spindle liners to use with it.

Since the bar isn't supported super close you will get more bar whip using a bar feeder than you will just running headstock lengths. But with decent stock it's not bad at all.

As far as installing them yourself, a hydro-bar is a piece of cake to install. Just get it roughly lined up to the machine, then using the pushrod get the height and alignment close. Then remove the pushrod and the fitting at the end of the tube. Get some heavy monofilament line (fishing string or light weed whacker string). Make a tight fitting plug that fits in the back of the bar loader tube and make a small slug you can chuck on in the lathe. drill a hole slightly bigger than the line through the plugs. Pull the string through by taping the end to a small bar or use fish tape. String it through the plugs, insert the plug in the bar feed and chuck on the one in the spindle. Tie a knot on the spindle end then pull tight the string tight through the bar feeder end and hold it in place with a vice grip. Now you need to center the string in the back of the spindle. Do this by moving the back of the bar feeder. Raise it, lower it, move it side to side, etc. A simple trick I've used is to make a pointer out of a magnetic sticker like you see on machines at the tool shows. I cut a pointer out of it and put it on the back of the spindle. I rotate the spindle by hand and use the pointer to check how centered in the spindle the string is. Once the string is centered in the spindle you need to adjust the front of the bar feeder around to get the string centered in the end of the tube. Once it's all centered drill your holes in the floor and lag the bar feed down using concrete anchor bolts and sleeves. Leave the string set up in place in case you bum the bar feed out of place. Once its lagged down check it all one more time.

Magazine bar feeders are installed in a similar way. Although nowadays most bar feed techs have a laser and target they use instead of string. It really isn't any more accurate as far as I can tell, just a little quicker.
 

viper

Titanium
Joined
May 18, 2007
Location
nowhereville
I am kinda wondering right now, in sake of space, If I should just make a support device to run 6ft bars and keep pulling for now? Seems I cannot fit a 6ft feeder even. From spindle nose to outside of machine is 46". Supported is 36". Just means I need to reach into the cabinet 10in and support it a bit. I just hate to waste coin on a 6ft if I may be able to wait till I get in the next shop where I can fit a 12ft feeder.

I know I got damn irritated with chopping, and deburring bars last month so if I could even just pull 6ft bars, that would save time in bar prep.

Don't get me wrong, I am not jumping ship just yet but I have to consider this options because it will only hang off the machine 2ft and I would have to hand load it. I am used to that anyway. Seems I have a lot to research for a feeder too. Seems pretty pricey as well. I know used it would have to be.
 

viper

Titanium
Joined
May 18, 2007
Location
nowhereville
Thanks so much for the detailed write ups Swiss. If I have this right, they all use some form of hydro oil to help balance or float the bar. The single hydro bars like the barrel type need to push against a stop, the new generation magazine types do not but should for best accuracy.

The push rod will extend into the draw tube with a property sized cone device and bearing to uncouple the rotation of the bar from the pushrod. Servo types are generally spindle length only but pretty accurate.


so if the bar is somehow floating in oil, how is this sealed from getting everywhere? What happens once the bar gets to the end of the feeder and the pusher extends into the spindle?

See, with my machine, the outside of the machine is not the end of the spindle, there is a 10" gap there that will be unsupported. I learned with 5/16 SS, you want that 10" supported for sure. Just curious how that gap gets picked up.
 

SwissPro

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 13, 2006
Location
Illinois
Viper,

You've got it pretty much.

LNS and the Spego offer a "Z" axis option on their hydro-bars. So the sheet metal on the back of your machine will have to be cut out some to accommodate the snoot of the barrel. When you load a new bar you undo a clamp, slide the barrel back (its on linear ways and trucks so it slides real easy like). Swing the barrel out, and load the new bar by pushing it down the tube. Then swing it back in and slide it up inside the back of the machine. There will be an adjustable hard stop on the bar feed, so the gap can be made to be very small. There is also a confirmation switch at the stop. So if the feeder is not up against it and clamped the machine won't run. These bar feeders also have recouperators on the end of the barrel. Basically a fiberglass housing with a round brush in the end and a drain in the bottom. Most of the oil will spin off in the recouperator, the remaining will get swiped off by the brush. It all gets returned to the tank via the drain. Some machines, usually Swiss types require a special low profile recouperator because of clearance issues inside the machine tool. Swiss machine spindles are usually low to the bed, are mounted to the Z-axis, and as a result have the servo motor right in the way. After all these years, LNS and Spego pretty much have a solution for every lathe.

The Magazine bar feeds have a snout on them. You can see them in the pictures. The snout will be cut to length during install. The snout works like the recouperator on the hydrobar. There is a drain hose though much smaller in the snout. There is a gap between the snout and the bearing block or roller support where most of the oil is spun off and returned to the tank. Depending on the manufacturer you will have a snout for every channel set, or a removeable liner that matches each channel set. Or nothing at all.

In any case very little oil makes it out of the bar feeder. And there is no unsupported gap when running.

So now if you look at one of those used HYS6.42 bar feeders make sure it has the Z-axis retract option on it. It can be added but I doubt that will be cheap.

Also most of the magazine loaders offer an optional floor track so that the bar loader can be moved back for machine repairs/maintenance. Then slid back into position without ruining the alignment. So if you have a belt drive spindle and the bar feed would interfere with getting at the spindle motor/belt you might want to consider the track option as well.
 

SwissPro

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 13, 2006
Location
Illinois
I am kinda wondering right now, in sake of space, If I should just make a support device to run 6ft bars and keep pulling for now? Seems I cannot fit a 6ft feeder even. From spindle nose to outside of machine is 46". Supported is 36". Just means I need to reach into the cabinet 10in and support it a bit. I just hate to waste coin on a 6ft if I may be able to wait till I get in the next shop where I can fit a 12ft feeder.

I know I got damn irritated with chopping, and deburring bars last month so if I could even just pull 6ft bars, that would save time in bar prep.

Don't get me wrong, I am not jumping ship just yet but I have to consider this options because it will only hang off the machine 2ft and I would have to hand load it. I am used to that anyway. Seems I have a lot to research for a feeder too. Seems pretty pricey as well. I know used it would have to be.

Are you up against a wall or an aisle? The Z-axis option on the hydro-bar will keep the space down to 6' when running, but you'll need the room when loading a new bar. If you are sliding it into an aisle, it's really no biggie. But if you are up against a wall, it's a deal killer.

The mag loader might make it because you have a recessed spindle. I would take careful measurements before committing though.
 

viper

Titanium
Joined
May 18, 2007
Location
nowhereville
I can fit 6ft off the side of the machine with another 4ft after that to load a bar but that is it. I can get at it from an angle but if I need 12ft to feed directly in the end, there is no way. I really need the remaining 4ft just to sneak around the feeder to get to the back shop. If I need something from the back shop, the feeder has to move. Sucky deal but I am working on a space solution.
 

SwissPro

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 13, 2006
Location
Illinois
You should be fine with any 6 footer then. The mag loaders load from the side so they require no extra room. The bars stack up right along the front side of the loader if you are standing facing toward the loader.

The Hydro-bars load from the front (spindle side), so standing facing your lathe you need 6 feet from the left side of your lathe to your right on about a 20-35 degree angle depending on how far the spindle center is from the sheet metal on the front of the lathe. The Z-axis will keep the overall length to around 6-7' added to the length of your lathe when running and you might use as much as three out of the four feet when loading a bar depending on how far your spindle is recessed.

Actually I might have to take that back. I just checked an LNS brochure and it looks like the bar feed is 2 feet longer than the length capacity including the loop of hose on the end. They don't show the 6 footer but figure it will take 6'-6" or maybe 7' so it might not fit at 8-1/2' to 9' long. I'd confirm the length before you order one at any rate.

The 6' mag loaders look to be 7-8 feet long depending on whose it is.
 

Mark McGrath

Diamond
Joined
Mar 15, 2002
Location
Scotland
To add to Swiss Pro`s excellent description of the different bar feeders,I would say if you buy a used hydrobar with short push rods,they are easy to extend,but are so simple it`s probably as cheap to make a new one.I run all LNS Hydrabars and Samecas which are very similar.Samecas give you a lot more options as standard for electrical connections.The Sameca pushers are more complicated than the Hydrabar ones but the Sameca has a telescoping support bar which means it`s not permanently stuck out in the way like the LNS.
These feeders are cheap to buy used over here,I don`t think I`ve ever paid more than $500 for one and have some spare for the future.
 

ARB

Titanium
Joined
Dec 7, 2002
Location
Granville,NY,USA
I may have missed part of the conversation here but our LNS ECO Load does nothing to support the bar once it is running. Once it is fed into the draw tube the lathe does all the support. There is no oil involved. Thus you can only run headstock length bars.

You guys may be talking about something totally different and I missed it but not all mag loaders support the stock.

Very good thread though!
 

SwissPro

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 13, 2006
Location
Illinois
Good point Mark. Over here Sameca was sold by SMW. The Gatling gun type was called the FSQ. IIRC, it would be FSQ 32 for a 32mm capacity feeder. They no longer carry the bar feeders. Is Sameca still in business?

Anyway, their multi tube bar feeders were very good. They are fairly easy to find used here. They made a magazine bar loader for a short while as well. Or at least SMW sold one, not sure if it was made by Sameca. It was a wretched thing with a cable drive.

Another old name multi tube hydro-bar is VDK. I'm not sure whatever happened to them but I worked on a bunch of them.

Over the years I've worked on/with most of them. LNS, SMW, Fedek, FMB, Iemca, VDK, Alps, Ikura, Tsugami, Cucchi, Grindley, Lexair, Spego, Lipe, Citizen, Alpine, MTA, and several different Taiwanese ones that I can't remember the brand names. They all have good and bad points. The Taiwanese bar loaders are getting better and better. LNS, Edge Technologies, MTA, etc, all carry some low cost Taiwanese made bar loader. Most are smaller capacity models used on Swiss type lathes.

For a great bargain mag loader for Swiss machines check out the MTA Tracer. The Tracer 20mm is around $20,000.00, has excellent fit and finish, runs quiet, and overall is an outstanding bargain. Again made in Taiwan, though you'd never know it to look at it.

The Japanese make some decent bar feeders, especially on the small end of the scale, but they only seem interested in selling them through machine tool builders. At IMTS we were running 0.8mm bar at over 20,000 rpm in an Alps feeder. I don't know of any other bar loader that can do that.
 








 
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